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Poll :: What to do?

Replace Car
11%
 11%  [ 1 ]
Replace Engine
22%
 22%  [ 2 ]
Do nothing.
66%
 66%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 9


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nitroracer
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Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 9


PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:34 am  Reply with quoteBack to top

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the forum and specifically created this account to get everyone's opinion. I recently took my 2013 TTRS in for its 15k checkup. The closest dealership is an hour from my home. After they completed the work, I drove back home. The next day when I woke up, I noticed a TON of oil had leaked from under the car. I checked the dipstick and there is essentially no oil. No indicator lights have come on yet, but I suppose that's because I haven't attempted to drive it after this discovery. My guess is some careless mechanic failed to tighten the bolt properly.

I'm wondering what my course of action should be. They have agreed to have the car towed there at their expense (obviously). I'm sure they'd love to get their hands on it before anyone else to cover their tracks. I've documented the issue with iPhone pics and video. There really is no way for me to know the extent of any damage without looking in the engine. Down the line if something funny happens (this is is a new car remember), i'm sure i'll immediately know the culprit if it's engine related. Ideally, I think I want them to replace the engine now, possibly even the car. This is like a patient dying on the operating table - that bad of a mistake…

EDIT: I'm thinking about asking them to double the warranty length, as I purchased this car and intend to keep it for many years. It won't them anything up front and in the event there is an engine issue up the road, then I expect them to have it covered.

Thoughts?
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derdle
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Car: RS4 B5 - gone
Torque: ing bollox

Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 7143

Location: Hertford

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Pretty careless of the dealership.
Might be worth contacting Audi Customer Services in Milton Keynes to ask them to offer a free extended warranty on the car. Don't be Mr Angry or Mr Shouty with them, just be calm and to the point you're more likely to get a favourable response.

Also - make sure the car is taken on a low - loader rather than towed back to the dealership.
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Graham
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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 8932


PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:25 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I think car and engine replacements are an over reaction, at least at this stage. Car replacement I think is at the very far end of unlikely.

You are quite understandably angry/upset about this but you have to also maintain some perspective to get a good outcome.

My experience of Audi dealers making mistakes is they are pretty good at making them good. They will have process for this. And be keen to ensure you are happy.

If there was not any oil level or pressure warnings on your drive home, I don't imagine any damage has occurred. Just my guess. You have discovered the issue (possibly only occuring with hot oil and the engine stopped) before the engine restarted.

You have documented this. Let the dealer collect the car but be clear about what happens next. Deal with an after care manager/service manager or similar at the dealership and be clear you only want a Master Tech to touch the car to investigate and assess.

Ask them how they can guarantee there is not any damage due to oil starvation and go from there. Perhaps insist on an oil analysis. If you want to push further, perhaps ask for an Audi UK tech to give a dealer independent opinion - not sure how likely this is, but has to have better odds of you getting a 15K mile car exchanged.
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Searider
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Car: 996 C2
Power: Std
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 1326

Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

No warning lights should mean no damage.
Iirc the engine has a "low oil" light (yellow) prior to the "low oil pressure" light (red).
Have a look in your handbook to confirm this.

Dealer should trailer car back to workshop and rectify the leak / loose sump plug or whatever the problem is.

You could ask them to check and report the oil pressure.
Might also be worth asking for an oil analysis to see if there is an elevated quantity of wear metals.

I don't think there will have been any damage.

No need to extend the warranty - but this may be something they might be able to offer that is worth more to you than it costs them. Certainly worth more than a free or discounted next service.

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Cheempeej
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Car: RS4
Power: Some
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Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 669

Location: Thurso!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Graham wrote:
I think car and engine replacements are an over reaction, at least at this stage. Car replacement I think is at the very far end of unlikely.

You are quite understandably angry/upset about this but you have to also maintain some perspective to get a good outcome.

My experience of Audi dealers making mistakes is they are pretty good at making them good. They will have process for this. And be keen to ensure you are happy.

If there was not any oil level or pressure warnings on your drive home, I don't imagine any damage has occurred. Just my guess. You have discovered the issue (possibly only occuring with hot oil and the engine stopped) before the engine restarted.

You have documented this. Let the dealer collect the car but be clear about what happens next. Deal with an after care manager/service manager or similar at the dealership and be clear you only want a Master Tech to touch the car to investigate and assess.

Ask them how they can guarantee there is not any damage due to oil starvation and go from there. Perhaps insist on an oil analysis. If you want to push further, perhaps ask for an Audi UK tech to give a dealer independent opinion - not sure how likely this is, but has to have better odds of you getting a 15K mile car exchanged.


100% agree.
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nitroracer
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Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 9


PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for the opinions. I am aware that a flatbed is needed, due to the Quattro system. And yes, I feel better about the situation given that no warning lights came on. However, they would have if not for the sheer luck of when I discovered the issue. Remember, I had an hour drive with this where oil was potentially leaking.

I think the best option is to have Audi, if they claim no damage was done, is to have them put it in writing. Aka, extend the warranty, at least with respect to any engine wear.
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nitroracer
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Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 9


PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Also, on page 185 of the owners manual, it clearly states not to depend on the oil sensors to determine the state of said oil, but to check it manually. Well, I did check it manually and the oil is completely empty...
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Graham
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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 8932


PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

nitroracer wrote:
Also, on page 185 of the owners manual, it clearly states not to depend on the oil sensors to determine the state of said oil, but to check it manually. Well, I did check it manually and the oil is completely empty...


But of course you should not rely on the sensors in normal occurrence - it is obviously better practice to check the oil level.

The sensors are there as an emergency warning. An emergency you luckily did not have, by the sounds of it. That does not negate any negligence there was, or the fact there is still a matter to resolve. However what could have occurred is only potentially relevant to how big the dealership's gesture might be. In terms of actually remediating the problem, which would be my primary concern, only what actually happened is relevant. To my logic anyway.

Again I suggest you keep what actually happened in perspective and manage that with the dealership and if necessary Audi UK.

Best of luck and do keep us posted.

When is the dealer collecting the car?
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lewiswlawrence
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Car: S4 B5 2000 facelift
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The fact there was a ton of oil under the car is a good thing, there was still plenty of oil in the engine while it was running. As the engine was not run dry you should be fine from an engine internals perspective, only issue might be why the engine is leaking now.

Hopefully just a loose sump plug, either way it sounds like you have the dealer on the hook for any issues now, someone clearly screwed up. I hope it is fine, please keep us informed.

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nitroracer
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Joined: 23 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

What actually happened is, the car leaked out all its oil. What, if any damage occurred to the engine is, and will forever be, unknown to me in the immediate future. Sure, there wasn't an "emergency". This is a luxury item, though.

The facts are that now I own a brand new vehicle which is no longer befitting of the price I paid, nor the RS badge, with potentially a good amount of internal engine damage which I am sure the dealership will go through great lengths to avoid/deny.

If I ever decide to resell it, the records will necessarily indicate that the car was potentially operated with no oil in it. Any smart shopper will run for the hills. It's basically a black sheep, and if I intend to keep it, I have to live with that fact.
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Noggymike
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Reading this thread I really feel all things considered you will be fine.

Just remember, even tho there is no reading on the dipstick doesn't meant the engine has run dry. Trust me, if you had been driving the car without any oil in it



YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN ALL ABOUT IT.


An hours drive home may have leaked some oil, through probably the incorrectly fitted sump plug or oil filter, but say 8-10 hrs sitiing on the drive would have leaked way more while the car was not being driven and remember a small amount of oil can spread to give a very false impression of the actual loss incurred.

Yes defo ask for an oil analysis but my guess is that things will be fine.

keep your cool and as Graham has already mentioned I'm sure your dealer will be kicking ass behind the scenes on your behalf to get this issue sorted for you.

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Searider
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Car: 996 C2
Power: Std
Torque: Std

Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 1326

Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

nitroracer wrote:
What actually happened is, the car leaked out all its oil. What, if any damage occurred to the engine is, and will forever be, unknown to me in the immediate future. Sure, there wasn't an "emergency". This is a luxury item, though.

The facts are that now I own a brand new vehicle which is no longer befitting of the price I paid, nor the RS badge, with potentially a good amount of internal engine damage which I am sure the dealership will go through great lengths to avoid/deny.

If I ever decide to resell it, the records will necessarily indicate that the car was potentially operated with no oil in it. Any smart shopper will run for the hills. It's basically a black sheep, and if I intend to keep it, I have to live with that fact.


Why bother asking us the question if you've already made up your mind what the answer is?
We don't reckon there has been any engine damage.
We've recommended to get Audi to prove there isn't any engine damage ( or if there is to discover it)
I can understand your disappointment in having spent your hard earned on a special car, BUT, and maybe I'm an optimist - my take would be "at least it all leaked out during the night when I wasn't driving it". If it had been pouring out when driving it would be all over the back of the car, the low oil light would have come on Followed by the red low oil pressure light. None if which has happened.

As a parallel to this, my previous S4 dumped most of its coolant whilst parked up at Gatwick. The car didn't overheat. The head gaskets didn't fail and the engine didn't seize up. Leak fixed and car all ok.
"Lucky it happened whilst parked and not whilst I was driving"

I'm out.

_________________
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Ian_C
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Noggymike wrote:
Reading this thread I really feel all things considered you will be fine.

Just remember, even tho there is no reading on the dipstick doesn't meant the engine has run dry. Trust me, if you had been driving the car without any oil in it



YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN ALL ABOUT IT.

Agreed.  Spoke to an RS5 owner recently who had oil pump failure on Motorway at 70mph.  30 seconds after the oil light came on the engine had seized.

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Trig
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Is the rear of the car covered in oil?

Yes, the engine has been run whilst oil has been leaking so therefore potential internal damage.

No, no damage done as oil has leaked whilst car stood still.





In your poll, where is the Contact Dealer and complain option?
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nitroracer
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Joined: 23 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The dealer came and picked it up on a  flatbed today. Even MORE oil has leaked, so I suppose that is evidence that there was something still left.

I think best case scenario here is a) no damage was done and b) I get an extended engine warranty out of it.

IN that case, I'd come out ahead altogether.

Remember, the damage has been done, whether internal or not. The resale value has now dropped because records will show this incident, and any smart shopper will use it as leverage to get a reduced price, and certainly any audi-phile will immediately shudder at even the remote thought of the car being driven while leaking oil (they will assume the worst, no matter what I say).

Because this incident was entirely their fault, Audi should rectify the situation until I am wholly satisfied, REGARDLESS of whether the engine was damaged or not.

P.S. the guy Audi sent slipped with his screwdriver while hooking the car up and scratched the rear bumper… awesome.


Last edited by nitroracer on Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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