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spen

3.0 litre engine build

The story starts.  I had tuned the car as far as I thought I should on standard rods.  I'd been warned by a few people.  My answer was simple: I was going to buy a set of rods and quickly swap them in.

Then one day at MRC Doug smiled and pointed "That's 3.0 litre, 700 bhp".
I laughed and said "Boost comes in at 6900 rpm?".
"No, peak torque at 4000 rpm"

After that I wanted 300 ccs more displacement.  It'll allow bigger turbos without sooooo much lag. And of course it'll add torque in it's own right as a modification.

The plan is, er, I'm not sure.  Either plan A: upgrade the engine to 3.0 as is (S4 heads and RS4 turbos) or plan B: Shove RS6 turbos in and 2.4 NA heads on.

So here we go, a 3.0L crank. Covered in lard to protect it.



Old OEM and new Eurospec rods.





Old OEM pistons and the new JE piston. Compression ratio will be 8.5:1





Now if Liam at ESP (hint hint) can reach peak motivation and make me a crank pully I can get all that lot balanced....  On the back of the crank there is an an MRC aluminum flywheel.  I didn't photograph it for some reason.


And to cure the boredom I grabbed an ASP Tru Dual exhaust.  It's single silencer with resonators.  That'll go on today.




Definitely a straight through silencer!  MMmm.  I hope this doesn't increase the Chav rating of the car too much.

MarkB

Worthy of being a 'sticky' thread as the build progresses I think.
jarv

I've ordered in the popcorn.  This is gonna be good.  Good luck with the build spen.
dummi

Spen I've got a light ecs crank pulley if you need it

if you keep standard heads and k04's the torque should be a good laugh!
ScottR

We're going to need a seperate sub-forum for 'home brews' soon!
MarkB

ScottR wrote:
We're going to need a seperate sub-forum for 'home brews' soon!


Might be an idea, to keep things tidy.
Doug

The autospeed exhaust is loud but deep - i really like the noise from that. Did you get DPs as well?

Looks like i will be going for same as you but maybe keeping the 2.7 - not decided yet!
MarkB

Anyone got a link for Eurospec please?
Adam

Try this link Mark...

http://www.eurospecsport.com/
viperbl

3L crank? different to a 2.7 crank?
musty

viperbl wrote:
3L crank? different to a 2.7 crank?


Yes mate
spen

Is a 3.0 crank different?  Yeah, I hope so!  



It has a longer throw and increases the stroke. This pulls the piston further down the bore thus the displacement is increased.  Coupled with a larger bore it comes out at 3.0l.  I'll post specs when I blueprint it all, I have a few PMs asking for measurements, weights etc.

Jarv - I hope that's a big bucket of popcorn This isn't going to be a quick build.  


The exhaust is on the car.  It is *LOUD*.  The most surprising thing is the additional performance. I had a dual exhaust with two silencers before. Hard to say if it's placebo or not but the car definitely feels like it hauls more ass.   Only time will tell if I can live with the noise and avoid an asbo.

Doug - I didn't get ASP downpipes.  I've already got a set of custom with 100 cpsi cats in.  I didn't want another set, even decat, not until I've decided on the turbos.

Dummi - you have PM!
jarv

spen wrote:

Jarv - I hope that's a big bucket of popcorn This isn't going to be a quick build.  


It's a 3 litre bucket, thought it was appropriate.  Take your time .
buzzard

good luck with this project spen.

when audi first built this 2.7 engine they reduced the bore size from the 2.8 block  to give more material in the bore walls.
does anyone know why?? was it the heat problem or just to give more strength.

great idea to stroke it though with a 3.0 crank.
spen

It could be any reason to reduce the bore when turbocharging.  My favourite is that they did it it to improve the head gasket seal.  Who knows.  

I'm going for an 81mm (approx) bore and a metal gasket.  Hopefully it'll be fine. Heads will be skimmed and block squared to ensure a good seal.  I'm not going to O ring it, I've never had much luck with that technique.
viperbl

spen wrote:
Is a 3.0 crank different?  Yeah, I hope so!  

It has a longer throw and increases the stroke. This pulls the piston further down the bore thus the displacement is increased.  Coupled with a larger bore it comes out at 3.0l.  I'll post specs when I blueprint it all, I have a few PMs asking for measurements, weights etc.


OH FFS!

Your telling me by just changing the crank you can increase it to 3L? You are using the same rods and pistons that I used for example? no need to change the block?
musty

irmc you need different rods but yes you dont need to change the block
spen

The block needs machining, and might need notching. I'm using a standard block as a starting point.  I picked it up on on a MRC flyby!! Doug usually has several kicking about.

I'm most likely not using the same rods and/or pistons as you.  If I did then the longer throw downwards would also be reflected in the up throw and I'd either have too high a compression ratio or I'd smack the valves in the face  

Let me measure the stuff up and see what's in the kit Then we'll see what is what and what can be reproduced easily.  It could be is simple as pistons with the pin higher up, reducing the compression height, and a new crank.

I just had a thought.  A 3.0 litre might spool those GT28s lower down in the rev range...    
dummi

spen wrote:

I just had a thought.  A 3.0 litre might spool those GT28s lower down in the rev range...    


with the maths 500rpm sooner
musty

wouldn't the dish in the piston reduce the compression? as for rod sound spot on would most probably need slightly sorter rods but the look very similar to the standard rods as in height and width
spen

at least 500 rpm

Musty, one way or the other!
spen

Right, back in the UK again.

Here's some more info on the rods and pistons.

OEM rods
big end diameter = 57.3mm
little end diameter = 21mm
centre point to centre point = 153.65mm
weight = 580g


Eurospec "3.0l rods"
big end diameter = 56.6mm
little end diameter = 21mm
centre point to centre point = 154mm
weight = 542g


OEM pistons
Diameter 80mm
Height = 58.6mm
Centre point of pin to top of crown = 20.4mm
Weight = 298g

JE pistons
Diameter = 81.5mm
Height = 43mm
Centre point of pin to top of crown = 17.4mm
Weight = 282g

So there is a useful weight saving in there too.

Here are both pistons, mounted on the same pin - you can see the major difference.



JE pistons again.




Block now stripped.



I'm going to have to do some serious measuring, I might need to chamfer the bottom of the bore to protect the piston skirt. I might need to machine notches in the sides of the bores to keep the rods away from the wall - I don't know yet.




And some mucky old 2.4 NA heads.

musty

cheers spen for the measurements
viperbl

spen wrote:
And some mucky old 2.4 NA heads.



Get em in the dishwasher mate
spen

wife would kill me  

They are most likely going to be stripped and dunked in a tank of mixed hydrocarbons for 24 hrs.
satans child

musty wrote:
irmc you need different rods but yes you dont need to change the block


if this is the case, how do you plan to run a 81.5mm piston in an 81mm bore, or did you mean with a rebore musty..?

interesting ?
musty

satans child wrote:
musty wrote:
irmc you need different rods but yes you dont need to change the block


if this is the case, how do you plan to run a 81.5mm piston in an 81mm bore, or did you mean with a rebore musty..?

interesting ?


After spen put the measurements up for the 3.0l rods I have a set of euro spec forged rods for the s4 and they are the same measurements, so these means that the pistons are custom ie: the wrist pin must sit further in to allow for the extra throw cause the the rods are not allowing for it. You can re bore 0.5mm I think that is the most you can do anyway
spen

UPDATE

Ok, after much measuring and soul searching this engine will be 3.0L.  Jack and Doug have both advised against removing so much material from the block to accommodate the big pistons.

I've got mic measurements from the pistons, they are even larger than my vernier measurement of 81.5 mm (no idea how I misread it).  I've left the exact measurements at the machine shop.  It's enough to get to a genuine 3.0 litres.

Several guys in the US and the supplier have said they run street cars over 8000 rpm on identical shortblocks with silly sized turbos.  Can't find anyone who does circuit racing, only drag racing. So, with some trepidation it will be 3.0L.     Someone has to find out.     I'm gonna hire a caterham for trackdays - using the s4 is hard on the brakes and tyres.  It's cheaper to hire a caterham.

Some more parts have arrived, all the standard vag stuff from Virdee Autos.  Thanks Virdee. And a set of the 034 Motorsport high rpm double valve springs and titanium retainers.

RS4 cams are sourced but not in my hands yet.

My heads turned out to be 2.8 NA, not 2.4 NA as well!   I dismantled them and they aren't good.  As in Audi did something strange.  Just behind the inlet valve there is a ridge all the way round the inlet port.  It looks like it should be machined out and bigger inlet valves fitted.  This is what Jack did, which seems like a good idea.  How come no one else has ever mentioned this    Has anyone got any feelings on bigger inlet valves    The 034 Motorsport set weighs in at 500 quid....    I'll do some pics.

I am half tempted to just whack on the s4 heads and cams and use k04 hybrids.  Aim for silly torque, sell the na heads, rs4 cams and double valve springs.  This did all start as just replace the rods to increase the safety margin     Sigh.
Virdee

Did the chain and the tensioner arrive OK?

Good to hear your back on track albeit with some issues!

Good luck with the build.....anything else give us a shout.
spen

Yeah, it's at work.  I haven't been in for weeks so I've not picked them up yet, but I know they are there
Virdee

Good to hear!
satans child

Re: UPDATE

spen wrote:
Ok, after much measuring and soul searching this engine will be 3.0L..



big yourself up bud..... i like your determination and guts to push the boat out...

hope it works well for you...
Andiroo

How's things progressing Spen?

Just curious as I'm considering a similar route

Cheers,

Andiroo
spen

It's been slow going.  I got back from Saudi and promptly went off to Switerland, which was f'king cold after Saudi  Coupled with a slight distraction of an extension which was 'suddenly' required to the house it has been slow going.

However, I can report the following progress:

Got the block back, all machined.  It's been acid dipped and the enamel removed.  It will be coated with red enamel shortly.  

The crank, rods, pistons, rings, pins, clutch cover, flywheel and crank pulley have been balanced.  Phew, what a bitch of a job. The VAG engine didn't seem to follow the normal rule of 50% reciprocating weight + 100% rotating weight as a counterweight.  Tried the alternative 33% rotating weight.  No joy.  It wasn't happening.

In the end we had to put a standard crank assembly on the V blocks.  It was balanced by VAG exactly at 40% reciprocating mass + 100% rotating mass.  Measuring the Eurospec kit it required 2 grams of material to be removed near the front and 4 grams at the back when using this formula.  In otherwords, a bit of a waste of time and effort.  At least I am sure the crank is internally and externally balanced now.  According to Eurospec it's now good for 8500 rpm.

Looking at the rings.  I'm not keen on the excessive JE ring gap.  It looks like a good way to burn the edge of a piston as the flame front disapears in to the ring land.  I am currently investigating the posibility of using total seal rings with no ring gap.

Heads wise I sold my second hand 2.8 heads to Doug @MRC.  I've got some brand new 2.4 NA heads (thanks Rik). Unfortunately they were both left hand heads.  Virdee sorted me with the core plug and two RS4 right hand RS4 cams so now at least I have a good set of heads.  They are about to go on the flow bench.  I can't decide if I should enlarge the inlet valves:  the port looks iffy and could do with straightening out but the valve already sits deep in the seat.  The ideal solution is oversized inlet valves...   but it all adds up...  hours of my time on a local shops flowbench is free, but cutting in new seats and a new set of valves isn't (see comment about extension to the house earlier!).

I've got the 034 motorsport valve springs and titanium retainers.  Good for 8300 rpm according to Dan @ 034.  I think Rich (viperbl) runs this kit to over 8000 rpm.

Still haven't decided on turbos.  I need to find out how much my feb bonus is, but I doubt it runs to inconel manifolds and stage 2 RS6 turbos.  curse the economic downturn

I should take some pictures really.    I did buy some carbon fibre bit from Carl, and it's sort of reinvigourated me.  I'll see if I can get in to the garage at the weekend....
viperbl

Good update man, its all come along!

Just need patience with these things! eh

spen wrote:
I've got the 034 motorsport valve springs and titanium retainers.  Good for 8300 rpm according to Dan @ 034.  I think Rich (viperbl) runs this kit to over 8000 rpm.


aye, limter set at 8200 ...
loomx

Looking forward to pictures! On the 2.4 heads you need to change the valves to either sodium filled or inconnel aswell.
spen

 yeah patience!  Still, no problem with the old engine; so no massive rush.  8200 rpm - nice!!  I look forward to that.
spen

nod on those sodium cored valves.  The 034 kit under consideration http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?products_id=533 has inconel exhaust valves.  Shame about the exchange rate at the moment.
Virdee

Glad to hear its all going well albeit slow and steady!
MilkybarKid

Yup will all be worth it mate!

BTW Total Seal rings are the way forward. Built them into a few high powered aircooled motors now and never had a problem.
Saying that i never had a problem with oem rings, except the normal wear and eventual slight leaks!
I had a set of formulae kicking about that i fired into excel to work out any missing dimensions from stroke/bore/deck height/combustion chamber cc/cylinders etc, im sure youve got your own methods but if you need it give me a shout
okkim

How much was that 3.0L crank and pistons? From Eurospec? My crank has taken a "little" hit, and I thought that what about stroking...

I have Total seal rings on my other motor, but it is not running yet so I don't have any expericene of it yet.

Spen, could you measure the JE-pistons from the wrist pin to the piston skirt side? I mean that the pin isn't on the center of the piston (that's why the OEM pistons have the arrow), and I'm not sure that are my JE-pistons installed correctly in my other motor. I didn't install those, and the installer thought that the pin was on the center.

I measured the OEM piston, and I measures I got was about 31mm and 29 mm from the edge of the piston pin to the piston side.

I was thinking that if you can measure the pistons, and tell that which is which side, I could open the oil pan and look if those are correctly installed. I have the same marks under the piston, and I could then determine the orientation.

I hope you understood what I meant
Doug

i run total seal rings with JE pistons in my S2 - not sure if i would bother again - i think the thicker traditional single style might be more robust - no real facts on it just my impression after using them.
MilkybarKid

Could be right Doug, my experience with them is in old flat fours so quite a bit different tolerence wise.
Difficult to tell whether they will last as well as oe rings until one of my engines have done 100k+ miles
Is total seal 2nd rings on the aircooleds usually, im not too keen on the brittle top ring they supply, but the oil seal rings are better than the ones mahle and aa fit to their aircooled motor pistons (imo )
Time will tell

By the looks of it then the 3.0l crank has a slightly smaller big end pushed slightly furhter out.
Am i right in saying you could take a stock 2.7 crank and have the big ends ground at an offset to their original centre then buy matching rods (or grind to match rods already available)?
Would there be a problem with oil galleries?
satans child

total seal rings

total seal rings are designed for running high boost aplications, the top ring is made from cromolly and is very very tough..

the compression ring is mounted with a scraper ring mounted on top of it.
the oilscrapers are pretty much the same as standard....

total seal rings will also need a 60 degree hatching honeing into the bore or they wont bed in properly...

look back at the pics of my pistons in my thread about project satand child and you can see just how many rings the use...

cant beat them....
spen

Ok for Okkim.

My pistons have a valve relief for the middle inlet valve like this:



Flipping the piston on the right over so that the valve relief stays in the same place:



On my JEs the serial number is stamped on the bottom with the numbers towards the inlet valve relief.  Therefore the bottom of the numbers will be facing the middle of the engine, towards the inlet manifold, on either side of the engine.

Accurate measurement wise was almost impossible with the tools available to me today.  It did look a lot less than your 2mm offset though Okkim.  

Hopefully from the pics and the orientation of the serial number (**IF* your pistons are serialed like mine?) will tell you they are installed correctly?

Personally myself, for the cost of a head gasket kit, I'd take the heads off and be totally sure.
spen

@Milky bar kid, you may be able machine the 2.7 crank for the extra throw and put in thicker shells?  I dunno.
spen

Whilst the jury is out on the total seal rings (thanks for all the info guys) here are a few pics of the block sans enamel






I was going to apply a new coat but it was too cold.  Condensation would have attacked the coating as it cured.  It needs about 20 degrees for application then in to a kiln at 98 degrees.  Some how I have to sneak this block in to the house, paint it and escape undamaged...
spen

Now to swap a left hand head in to a right hand head:

First I removed all the cams, chains, wheels, tensioner, valves, followers.



Then find the core plug which will block the cross over water pipe when we spin the head round.  I pierced it with a drift, then used larger and larger drifts to expand the hole.  I didn't want swarf going inside the water way.

The result:



Then I used a hook attached to a bar and a slide hammer to remove the core plug:



Next I hammered in a new 28mm core plug in to the other side, which is now the front of the right hand head.



Head converted!  Obviously I need to swap the left hand cams for right hand cams but before I do that I need to sort out the valves, seats and the ports.
spen

Inlet valve seat:



Its easy to see the changing profiles at the end of the inlet port.  The seat is about 1mm smaller than the port.  The port is then machined lightly before going on to the rough casting.  The transitions between the profiles is none existent.  There has got to be some power to be had in there.  

The only decisions I have here is to use larger inlet valves or not and what to do with the seat?  With a larger valve I could machine the seat away and insert a new one with a diameter nearer to that of the port wall.  I've got access to the facilities to do this and a flow bench to measure the results.  It's just that time is in short supply at the moment. And of course the cost of a whole pile of new valves

The other end of the inlet port, at the manifold, will get the lightest of polishes.  It's already pretty large.


exhaust valve seat:



Same problem as the inlet.  These ports will be polished right the way to the exhaust manifold.


And again from a slightly different angle:

okkim

Quote:
On my JEs the serial number is stamped on the bottom with the numbers towards the inlet valve relief.  Therefore the bottom of the numbers will be facing the middle of the engine, towards the inlet manifold, on either side of the engine.

Accurate measurement wise was almost impossible with the tools available to me today.  It did look a lot less than your 2mm offset though Okkim.  

Hopefully from the pics and the orientation of the serial number (**IF* your pistons are serialed like mine?) will tell you they are installed correctly?

Personally myself, for the cost of a head gasket kit, I'd take the heads off and be totally sure.


Thanks for the photos! I do know that I have the 81 marks in the casting, but I don't remember if they have serial numbers. But I have valve reliefs on the both sides, like in OEM piston!

How much was "much less than 2 mm"? And on which side it was? Because that is the main thing what matters.

I can't see if the pistons are installed correctly if I remove the heads because they have valve relief in the both sides. I have to buy new head bolts too if I open the heads. I think that I have to peek from the underside, and if the pistons are inconsistently positioned then I have to open it..

About the valve seats, I have read that they make a big difference in the flow if it is multi angle job. There is three angle seats in my heads, some tuner said that it could make almost 30% improvement in the flow.
spen

Okkim

The serial number is about 8 digits long.  I tried to highlight it in red on the pic, it is not the 81M which is cast in.  The serial looks as if it was scribed on.  The bottoms of the numbers point to the inlet manifold on my pistons.

As you say, if yours all point the same either towards or away from the inlet manifold then you're set.  If your's are a mishmash of directions then you need to fix that.

Much less than 2mm = approx 0.5mm.  I had nothing to clamp the piston and hold the vernier at 90 degrees.  Even moving a couple of degrees from perpendicular changed the measurement significantly.  I would not trust my measurements at all, but as you've asked here goes:

OE piston = 30.0mm and 28.5mm from outer edge of the piston skirt to the pin hole.  It is quite a pronouced offset.

JE piston (oversized) = 30.5 mm and 31mm.  The shorter side, 30.5mm has the valve cut out and faces the inlet manifold.

I completely agree with a multi angle valve job.  I fancy a three angle cut, but my local machine shop owner reckons on something more complex.  He builds engines for specific race series but I don't think such a complex face on the valve will last on  road engine?
okkim

Ok, thanks! I think that with this info I can figure out the right position. The 81M mark should point to intake manifold.

It might be that the bigger piston what you have makes this offset difference smaller, maybe.

I wouldn't make too complex valve seat if you are planning to drive it long time without maintenance. That's why mine have three angles.
spen

Ok, a few days effort and we have some progress to report. Here's the block:

spen

Time to match the components:

spen

Assembled rods, pistons awaiting rings.  No 1 and No 2 are assembled fully. I ran out of time for the rest - gapping the rings takes some time to do carefully.



Close up of No 1:

viperbl

mmmmm
spen

Just got to say, those little retaining clips which hold the pins in place.  They are absolute ******ds.  I spent the afternoon chasing them over the floor having pinged them yet again
mikey-s

What rods are you using?
musty

eurospec
spen

yeah, eurospec ECR 198 154 EA/6
mikey-s

Can you give an approx idea of the cost, and a supplier?
spen

From Eurospec!.  About 900 dollars + delivery + tax.

http://www.eurospecsport.com/products/components/connecting-rods.htm
musty

or me cheaper lol
spen

Or musty!  Can I have my thread back now? Lol
musty

sorry pal lol
spen

No worries, only kidding anyway.
musty

i know pal well must say looks really nice mate well done  
dummi

nice colour choice on the block Spen I have one like that here :thumbs:

Spen why not do valve diameter and lift you'll gain more
spen

I know, but the planning and plotting has to end!  I wanted to fit new seats and swap for bigger svalves to sort it out but it comes down to a proper set of exhaust manifolds or a set of bigger valves.  The only way to get both is to wait another couple of months and I'm now out of patience.
dummi

lol I hear you, looking forward to seeing it running mate
MarkB

How's it coming on Spen? Are you nearly ready to do the transplant?
spen

bottom end built, pistons in, rings gapped etc. I never want to see plastigage again.  

It's all assembled awaiting my getting my ass to the machine shop and flowing the heads.

Got to pick up my turbos soon too.
viperbl

spen wrote:
I never want to see plastigage again.


PMSL, I know the feeling!
okkim

Could you elaborate? I'm just about to do that, when I found some plastigauge.
spen

Three readings per main bearing and big end  journal at 120 degrees rotation apart.  This means that I had to get the plastigage in to some very tight  spots with only a bearing widths access.  All fine except one main bearing was 4 thou smaller - it needed a quick polish to get rid of a scratch.  All the rest are smack in the middle of the tolerance range.  Bottom end now blueprinted!!    I never want to see plastigage again.

Only slightly less annoying was getting the pistons back in - my spring compressor is going to be replaced.  Once  no 6 was back in I drop kicked it down the road.  Damn thing kept letting the second oil control ring slip out.  Cheap crap halfrauds tools

I'll post up some pics tonight.  It's all assembled with graphogen paste in the right places.  

[start argument]

I oiled the piston rings lightly as instructed by JE who made the Pro seal rings I used in the end.  No dry startups here, although the bores were cleaned and degreased.

[/start argument]
Ghost

Once  no 6 was back in I drop kicked it down the road.  
spen

pistons going in.

One in...



Two in...




Three in...




Four in...




Five in...




Six in...



Hooray!

When I became totally bored of gaping rings and checking clearances I called in extra help.  This 3.0 engine is now officially Spen & Son...

spen

turbos will now be K24 / K16 hybrids.  This shot I stole from somewhere sheds a little light...



The K24 wheel is a little larger again...
jimbo

viperbl

This is looking good spen
rik

At what sort of revs do you reckon the boost would be coming in?
spen

That remains to be seen!  In theory it is similar to a GT28 in airflow and mass.  If it's >4.5k I'll buy a custom machined crank and go >3.0l or buy another car for driving to the shops or something.  I could fit NOS but I'm scared for my inlet manifold
viperbl

I am seriosuly considering NOS for mine, just a little shot tappering off as boost builds up ... just more $$$!!
spen

HAHhha.  Little shot.  It'll end up a progressive 300 shot off 6x 50 bhp jets, one on each port....
rik

Are you raising the redline, and if so, to where?
spen

8200 rpm seems to be the going rate  034 titanium retainers and collets.  034 double spring kit.
rik

Hm. So, you're aiming for the boosted revs to be under half of the redline. What's the compression ratio going to be?
spen

At the moment it is 8.5:1, with a standard thickness gasket.  I can obviously go lower but I think 8.5:1 should be ok.  I have a set of thicker gaskets, they are 5 layer IIRC, but having enough torque low down to pull off the drive might be nice....  For now it's 8.5:1.
rik

Are your rods short, then? I reckon 8.5:1 you'll feel, but I don't think you'll wish it was too much more. The question is how much boost you can run on that. This should be great fun.
spen

TBH Rik, there's no master plan.  Musty came up with some big turbos, MRC didn't get back to me with prices on RS6 stage2s so I bought Musty's blowers.  Nothing is set in stone and I can change them later on if it's too peaky for how I drive.
spen

No the rods are the same length, but the deck of the piston is lower and it's heavily dished to get the 8.5:1 CR.

We'll have to see about the boost characteristics and tolerance to timing.
Smurfbus

Most 3 liter builds use lower max rpms (say 7500 max) to keep the piston speeds in healthy range. Mad Torque is what they aim for and that's what you will get too : )
spen

We will have to see.  The creators of the bottom end spec'ed a max rpm of 8500 when fully balanced.  I don't intend to go near that, if torque comes on strong 4k onwards I will be happy and won't need to rev that high!
viperbl

Torque I miss her.
Smurfbus

Rich: You must mean low end torque
viperbl

I do, but is high end torque just not really HP. I got plenty of that! Its just that, kick in the back down low thats missing
Smurfbus

Win some, loose some. You turned your car into a monster (that many envy) but I guess next summer will tell if you like it better now with power vs. earlier low rpm torque with a ghey top end power like the rest/most of us : )

You can always build 3liter later like Spen has to get more low end torque naturally (no nos needed).

Looking forward to see some 1/4mile times for all of these projects.
viperbl

Definatly, grass is always greener

Its just R&D all the time, and I am certainly enjoying the trip! and yes, can't wait to see Spens results
rik

Indeed. I miss the low-end torque of the S4 on the hedge. I just need to remember to drop a cog or two in time though. It's just a different way of driving the car, and having to think a bit further ahead.
spen

We have K24/K16's in the house...  And 3" downpipes.  Time to dismantle and blow the dust out!  That turbine housing will be worked on as well.  Piccies soon.  Anyone got any trashed compressor wheels to stick next to it for a photoshoot.  Or even non trashed ones, k03, k04, rs6, gt28, I will return them.
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