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ghostdog

Audi S4 B5 low budget project

Cheers guys after being here for few years now I decided it is about time to start a thread for my car and share my budget S4 build. There will be pics in this thread after few days since the hosting site I use is down and I need to upload what I have elsewhere and try to salvage what I lost.
I got the car in the middle of 2012 bought it for 1/3 of the market price because of little problems and bad exterior condition - scratches and dents here and there. Since then I took the time to fix most of the problems and enjoy it every moment I got to drive it. I liked it so much I decided to sell my current daily driven car at that time A6 1.8TQ 2001 year with hybrid K04 and some mods and my 90% ready S2 coupe 450hp project.
After almost five years finally it is time to pull the motor and see what I can do with limited budget and four years of preparation.  
The car is santorin blue S4 B5 avant 1999 year, facelift with analog clock.

Currently installed "performance" mods:
- 17" matt black OZ Ultraleggeras with 235/45/17 Nokian zline tires
- Eibach pro kit springs, original shocks
- aftermarket software
- gutted downpipes with RS4 cat back
- some no name sidemount intercoolers for now
- no name cone filter
- sid egt boards with external displays
- greddy profec b spec 2
- 4 piston brembo at the front from Audi S8 D2 with 334x32mm brake discs from MB C43 AMG, stock brakes at the back for now
- twin 710N valves
- viscous fan delete

Here is a list of all parts and mods I gathered for four years and plan to install:
- 2.4 NA heads port and polished and port matched to RS4 intake manifold and tubular exhaust manifolds
- 2.4 NA camshafts
- Rosten performance intake and exhaust valves, titanium retainers and uprated valve springs
- Maxspeedingrods rods with arp rod bolts
- RS4 pistons bought from Jimbo + brand new piston rings
- Fluidampr
- SRM bearing girdle with ARP main studs
- 059115105H 2.5TDI oil pump
- TTV racing flywheel for RS4 B7 PP
- RS4 B7 PP with aftermarket organic friction disc
- EV14 650cc injectors from Ford
- T25 journal bearing turbos with 44.2/60mm compressor wheel and 47/53mm turbine wheel, with 360 degrees performance bearings
- turbular ss exhaust manifolds and 63mm downpipes
- RS4 B5 catback with middle box removed
- 63mm turbo intake pipes
- 57mm turbo to intercooler pipes
- 63mm intercooler to throttle body pipes
- S4 throttle body for now, if it turns to be restrictive I have 75mm, 80mm and 85mm throttle bodies waiting
- RS4 intake manifold with addapter to mount the S4 throttle body
- Aquamist HFS3 w/m kit with 3x0.8mm nozzles I plan to use 2 mounted before the throttle body
- electrical fan in place of the viscous fan
- OE metal diverter valves from EVO 9
- Pierburg 7.00228.51.0 fuel pump, will be using original fuel lines for now
- gearbox from A6 2.5TDI quattro 2003 year with oil pump and external oil cooling with torsen from my original gearbox and 4:1 torsen mod
- rear diff with 3.89 gear ration because of the diesel gearbox
- front brake discs, I am pretty sure 345mm brake disc will fit under 17"ultraleggeras with 4 piston brembos from S8 D2. Now with 334mm disc I have 9-10mm clearance. Planning to use 345x30mm disc from S4 B6.
- 280mm rear brake discs from S8 D2 with 4 piston rear brembo calipers from Audi RS2 and rear parking brake caliper from Jaguar XKR
- bilstein b12 pro kit
- new rear suspension bushes and arms
- alloy uprights at the front, will be removing the cast ones
- from suspension arm because of the alloy uprights
- driveshaft support bearing
- external oil cooler with RS4 B5 thermostat sandwitch plate and original oil cooler delete
- possibly custom Y pipe
- big K&N cone filter bought from Jimbo
- some no name short shifter, dont plan to install it for now
I believe this is it. Hoping to make close to 600hp at the crank with close this amount torque and I really hope the clutch holds.
The plan starts with removing the motor next week on 25.06 and to revise it fully with new bearings, piston rings, gaskets, bolts and everything I managed to think of and buy so I can replace it. I dont have enough time and it will be close, I must get back to work on 11.07 and I wouldnt be able to work on the car after that. Fingers crossed.    
I really hope you guys like the thread.   Also excuse my English it is not my strong side.  
gtwibell

Wow! That's some project. Sounds like you've got it all under control. Do keep us updated with progress.

Just one thing. Whenever did the phrases 'low budget' and 'B5 S4' (or particularly 'B5 RS4') ever appear in the same sentence before?  
S4 Muzza

Photos required!
ghostdog

Thank you, thank you for the interest!
There will be photos soon. Now I can only show the car and some of the parts, I promise there will be photos of the whole process since I will have questions probably.
gtwibell to be fair it really started as a low budget rs6 turbos swap on a stock motor and for good or bad now the "thing" costs like 8-9 times the initial budget 40 month later and the car is still almost stock.  
BennyBoo

Out of curiosity, why fit a Diesel box then fit the 3.89 diff..?

Is it not better to stay with the 4.11 and have the longer 6th..?
ghostdog

Hi,

The gearbox is not a DQT, it came out from facelift A6 2.5tdi and if I am not mistaken it is a FTL gearbox.
"A6 2.5 TDI Quattro (C5) 3.750 2.059 1.320 0.933 0.711 0.561 (6-Spd)
Final Drive: 3.889:1
Gearbox Codes: FTL"
My rear diff has some play in it so I needed to change it anyway. Also my 1-2 synchros are almost done.



They are almost perfect matched for my driving style. When I cruise I rarely use all gears when I am accelerating to reach the speed limit most of the time I miss 4-th or 5-th gear.  If I use the diesel gearbox I will have 5 gears for normal driving and one tall gear for highway speeds. Here the speed limit on the highways is 90mph, most of the time if you drive with 100mph the cops dont bother you. In the town I live all boulevards have speed limit of  50mph and 44mph we usually drive 5-10mph above the limit so the gearbox will be fine. I want my rpm limit to be raised to 7500 and this will help also.
ghostdog

This is the car, I literally just got it freshly imported from Germany.







Santorin blue S4 B5 1999 avant manual. Came with:
- 5 different by brand tires  
- cream with leather interior
- 4:3 RNS-D
- cruise control
- heated and full electrical front seats
- electrical sun roof
- ESP
- carbon trims
- heated and power folding mirrors
and all other usual things for S4.

Cleaning time.











The front seats were in bad condition like someone wanted to f*ck them up that is why I installed Recaro black leather seats and will come to that later.

After the car became clean enough so I can drive it it was time for service.



New belts, tensioner, thermostat, water pump, antifreeze, oil, filters...
Since we were already in the shop the precats were screaming to be removed and we did we also deleted the main cats.







Now is the time to say, everything done to the car and what is going to be done will be by me and a friend so this is a 99% DIY project I will use only a guy who will going to remap the car after it is done everything else will be done by me and my mate who was stupid enough to offer his services.  

Here it is with fresh registration, insured and pass all local inspections.



Still on five different tires, says a lot for the quality of the inspections here.    Actually I managed to go away with only a warning about the tires.  
ghostdog

Now since I could drive the car legally I started to fix the problems:
- bad egt's, replaced with Sid's boards with external displays





- front cv joint, replaced both cv joints, new joint boots and grease
- front inner cv joint boot gone bad, replaced both inner boots, new grease and cleaned the cv joints
- front right xenon ballast gone bad, replaced everything - new bulbs, new ballasts... later both brand new OE headlights and installed FX-R bixenon projectors with 55W Xenon bulbs and ballasts
- new alloy wheels and tires, replaced with



Brand new OZ Ultraleggera 17" 8J ET35



before



after



tires are 235/45/17 Continental Sport Contact 3

- new brakes front and rear, replaced with Ate Power disc and the front, Ate normal discs at the rear, black diamond pads everywhere, Goodridge braided hoses and full refurbish of the front and rear calipers



This is the only picture I have with this brake setup before I changed it. It shows the first winter with brand new 235/45/17 winter tires and the quality of the roads here. I was lucky there was not crack so we fixed the wheel without any trace of damage.



new winter tires for the winter

- new FIS/DIS display the old was was missing some like, dont have pictures of the procedure



in the meantime I installed A6 C5 facelift rings on my car, I really like the look

- new front control arms, replaced with complete new set

- new intercoolers, replaced with no name set







- new cam chain tensioners and chains in the heads and fixed timing and new valve cover gaskets and seals for the tensioner
Still cant recover the pictures of the intercooler install at the same time I opened the heads

- exhaust upgrade, intalled RS4 catback, no pictures I have only pictures of the tailpipes swap and fitting new rear bumper

- new tailpipes installed before that it was fitted with stainless steal pipes just cut by size



painted black for HP gain



old bumper



new bumper

- remap, we used some supposed to be ABT file, pretty happy with the result

- new vacuum lines and 710N install
ghostdog

- RNS-D delete, installed Pioneer DEH-80PRS main reasons: usb mp3, bluetooth and possible audio speaker upgrade in the future



- greddy profec b spec 2 install, my N75 was acting strange so I decided to intall boost controller

- RS4 B5 front bonnet grill install, found OE brand new grill in some Bulgarian forum and bought it

- changing the seats, finally managed to find Recaro seats I could afford and in perfect condition



test fitting passenger seat





still on original suspension springs and shocks, here I started to get tired of them



after the passenger seat passed the test I mounted the driver seat



almost ready, now I started looking for rear seats and center arm rest, managed to buy rear seats form ebay.de and arm rest from here, mine was broken

- brake upgrade again, stock brakes dont work good enough for me



test fitting brembo 18z from my mates Touareg who upgraded to 8 pots



test fitting same calipers with MB 345mm discs in my mates place, couldnt fit the 17" OZ over the caliper and I sold them

Had a friend selling 4 pot Brembo from Audi S8 D2, gave him 18z calipers I  was holding for my car in exchange. Pretty good caliper the 4 pot I like them a lot.





compared to 18z



managed to get my hand on brand new MB C43 amg front brake discs and the setup was complete.







with small modifications and some work in the shop we managed to prepare them for fitting









pretty calipers after sandblasting



high temperature paing



finally in black color and stickers





on the car







with Eibach pro kit springs and original shocks



new tires for the last summer



235/45/17 Nokian zLine, I like the Conti's more, Nokian needs to be heated before biting good enough, will be changing them for next summer with something more sticky

- changing headlight, bought brand new headlight from Audi sale of old stock, my mate installed Morimoto FX-R 3.0 2.5" bixenon projectors in place of original projectors that came from the factory. FX-R's fit but it is close. Installed 55W 4300 xenon bulbs and ballast. The difference is like the difference between night and day really.



happy little idiot me



- fog light delete and front bumper midification









organised dyno day



the result 284hp and 431nm at the crack on 1 bar pick pressure and 0.95 hold with the greddy boost controller, later I fount the hose between the inlet manifold and the servo had 3 centimetre crack in it and replaced it we havent put the car back on the dyno

I think that is is, this is four years of doing almost nothing and just enjoyng the car.
S4 Muzza

Very nice, some amount of work there. Big improvement on when you first got it!
BennyBoo

Ahh, no worries.

I think 3.89 will be too long for the S4 though..

Working out with the stock wheel/tyre setup and just the 6th from the Diesel box in the S4 box would be better..

But, honestly just my opinion..

Stock (I used my limiter..)


TDi 6th in S4 box


Some do TDi 5th too?
ghostdog

I wont sell the S4 box, if the diesel box turns out to be bad choice I will revise the S4 box and return it with another diff.  
ghostdog

I have few more pictures to add.



This is the OE friction disc from RS4 B7 clutch kit



This is the uprated friction material installed on the OE disc center



Greddy boost controller installed.





Timing in perfect condition before timing belt change.      





Brake caliper clearance with 334mm brake disc.



Little repairs before removing the engine, made the photo from distance so you dont see my mates butt crack.  







SRM bearing girdle, oil pump chain and tensioner. Dont have picture of the main studs.





RS4 intake manifold "modified" from someone and 75mm throttle body. I will change few things the mani also.



New torque wrenches for the build.











Downpipes, exhaust manifolds and part of the exhaust. Dont know who made them, bought them as seen here. Manis have strange design I hope they last. Probably will uprate downpipes to 76mm if there is enough time.



New cam chain tensioners for 2.4 NA heads, this is the closest I could find to OE tanesioner.







TTV Racing 2.7T flywheel for RS4 B7 clutch





Engine mounts made by my mate, copy of Stern motor mounts.[/url]
armageddon

I was going to use the same clutch combo as you but with sachs organic disc, but I was told by ttv that stock b7 disc and sachs organic are both high quality, so maybe I will run stock organic disc.
ghostdog

I really hope it holds like that.
The uprated thing costed me absolutely nothing, I have a mate here who offers them as a service in his shop and I went to him to compare both materials. My initial thoughts are:
OE disc is very smooth almost looks like polished. Compared to the uprated one the OE surface seems almost like slippery. The uprated surface is rough like there is more metal substance in it or something. Saw it in action, the guy who installs them slipped the clutch in his car 3 times from red line and left the car to cool of the clutch for 10-20 min, after that I drove the car - no fade effect, no slipping occurred, nothing it was like it was nothing happened.
ghostdog



This happened today between 11:30 and 15:30.





















Three guys and a lot of laughs during the day. Up to 16:30 we managed to remove heads, turbos, manifolds, belts, pulleys... 16:35 we started messing around with  the forklift and someone made critical mistake to open a beer after that nobody wanted to work on the engine anymore and the work day was finished. Nothing was broken, I find it very odd, maybe tomorrow we will be able to brake something expensive.
To do list for tomorrow:
- remove the gearbox
- remove clutch and flywheel
- remove sumps
- remove pistons, rods and crankshaft
- prepare everything

That's it for today, more to follow.

FalleN

haha, cool post! And good progress.
ghostdog

Last Sunday we finished with the engine, everything is in pieces.









So yesterday I took the engine block and crankshaft to a machine shop. The crankshaft is spot on without any wear, they will polish it. The block is SHOT in the head with five tenths cylinder wear and six hundreds ellipse.  
Now I have perfect RS4 B5 pistons with piston pins and brand new piston rings for sale. The pistons are bought from Jimbo last year. Also I am looking for 81.5, 82 or 82.5 pistons for 2.7T.
ghostdog

In the meantime I bought four brand new OZ Alleggerita HLT - Titanium Tech 8x17" ET48, now I am waiting for four wheel spacers to be made - 13mm front, 18mm rear.



I like them a lot, I wonder will they look nice on a S4.
BennyBoo

Looking great

Good luck for the rest of it
ghostdog

Thank you, just ordered Mahle 81.5 pistons 9.0:1 CR ratio, they will be here at Monday. I hope this will be the last problem, I had a lot of fun taking the engine off and disassembling it but the block thing is no fun plus my spare cash amount is close to zero.
ghostdog

We have new pistons.













Lovely color. Brought them to the guys from the machine shop, they liked the pistons and promised I will have engine block next Tuesday. I hope everything goes ok from now on. The 2.4 head will be ready tomorrow with new valves, valve guides, springs, retainers, holders......
ghostdog

Hello again,

We started putting the engine back together.



Before cleaning the block.



After cleaning with some help from ARP.



Silly Rabbit Motorsport bearing girdle.



Rods and pistons assembled with piston ring gap measured, will give more info about it below.



She sleeps like that alone, but dry and warm.  



Redline assembly lube is a cool thing to have. I use it for first time, used oil begfore. The assembly lube is better from what I saw.

Now for some info about clearances and measurements.
Currently the ring gap is as fallows:
- top compression ring - 0.35 mm
- bottom (second) compression ring is - 0.45 mm
- oil ring is - 0.55 mm
We havent gapped the rings, only took measurements.
Cylinder wall to piston clearance is 0.05mm +/- 0.005mm. In the Mahle manual is stated for normal applications cylinder wall to piston clearance should be between 0.025-0.045mm, for high hp applications up to 0.075 is allowed. I am going to run no more than 600hp (targeting 550-560) with methanol that is why we targeted 0.05 clearance a bit above maximum for normal applications.
I have some doubts about the ring clearance. In the document included in the piston package is stated that the piston rings are drop in but it is recommended to measure the ring clearance. There are no information what gap should be ok for stock applications, only for racing, nitrous, track... if you go and enlarge the gap and if you do firs and second rings should have the same gap of 0.50-0.55mm. Does that mean that in original condition those rings should follow the recommendations for the original 2.7T piston rings? What do you guys think?
ghostdog

Another update.





Ring gaps measured - 0.36mm and 0.4mm between the cylinders. I am happy with this result, the machine shop did their job perfect.



Pistons in the right places not in the box.



Bearing girdle and TDI oil pump in place.



Oil pump chain and tensioner installed.



Upper oil pan modified to accept the bearing girdle, you can see the holes in the alloy.  



Here it is fixed with aluminium weld.



We installed the fluidampr to put the engine in TDC. The original damper pulley had a problem with it the crankshaft fixing pin couldnt get in. I guess from time, workload and vibrations the mark has moved a bit. The difference between old and new pulley was 2mm.



2.4 heads installed.





The "engine" started to gain some weight.



Test fitting the strange exhaust manifold. Looks strangely promising.    We will see.



Some Redline assembly lube.



Cams are installed on the marks, everything looks spot on.



Finally timing belt, water pump, thermostat in place and cam locking tool slips without any force. We turned the engine few times, timing marks on the cams and TDC are spot on. We installed the plugs and turned the engine few times again, there is "some" compression there.  



That is it for now, we will be putting more stuff on the engine next Saturday.
ghostdog

One last thing managed to get my hand VR6 2.4V engine. It is from a golf 4 and it has done only 20 000 kms, yes 20 thousand kilometers. Currently it is waiting to be put together. This is what is done to the engine and what waits to be put in it:
- cylinder block measured, decked, honed
- brand new Mahle Motorsport Powerpack 81.5mm pistons 9.0:1 CR
- brand new forged rods
- brand new Schimmel performance main and rod bearings
- ARP main and head studs
- head decked with valve job, new valve stem seals and valve guides....
If anything happens to the 2.7T I will be putting the VR in, if the 2.7T is ok then the VR will go in A4 B5 sedan with EFR 8374, direct port water/methanol injection.... and plans for wide body. I hope this will be a great project for 2017 year.
Dubnuttah

Impressive work
ghostdog

Thank you!
Alps

All the technical talk unfortunately means nothing to me. All I do know though is you have put in some serious work into this. Maximum credit guys.
ghostdog

Thank you!!!





This is the 10mm spacer needed for the lower oil pan to clear the oil pump. The oil pump went down 8-9mm because of the bearing girdle. That is why I ordered aluminium spacer 10mm and longer oil pan bolts.





We are almost ready, maybe 2-3 days more work and we will try to start the engine.
kylebrady

Top work mate
ghostdog

Thank you! We are doing the best we can.  
adzn3k

Were any checks done to the clearances of the maxspeeding rods before fitting as I've heard mixed reviews about them
ghostdog

Hi,

The machine shop checked them and said the rods are perfect, dont need balancing and I shouldn't have to worry about them. I also weighted them on a digital scale four of the rods were the same weight and two were one gram more.
ghostdog

Little update. Decided to change the exhaust manifold because a friend of mine offered me his own manifold so I can run them. He wont be putting his engine back soon because of busy schedule.







This is what he made for his own car. This is thick wall black steel or steam pipes I dont know how are they called in English. He made a slot of exhaust manifolds for other cars, this is his first set for 2.7T. We will just change the flange to T25 and they will be ready after that. They passed the test fit with perfect score.
This is how they fit the car.













I am happy with the result. All k03/k04 oil and water lines line up. That is it for now.
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