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musty

Black Beauty

Hi all,

As you all know now I have purchase Tom's rs4, well I pulled the engine today with the help from Alex (aposegil) as I started to strip the engine down, started to take the passenger side manifold off as we was taking it off it was rattling the tubes in side the manifold was loose and a bit broke off and wedge it self in the turbo blade's. So thought turbos fooked but on closer inspection (dismantling) they are fine so looks like with a refurb they will be ok.

also the secondary air system was full of cracked pipes so lots of air leaks now removed so no more problems there also inspected the cams as it is a high millage engine and they looked really good no flat spots or burns or pits.

THE COMMENTS ON THIS ENGINE HAS NO REFLECTION ON MRC OR IS NO A DIG OR RANT ABOUT MRC I BOUGHT THE CAR WITH KNOWLEDGE  THAT IT WAS NOT 100%

will keep you updated as it progresses
SimonS4

So do you think this will be okay with new manifolds then. Do the turbo's require any work?

Good result if not.
musty

passenger manifold finished, but wont put the driver side back on just in case so have a spare set will be putting them back on.

as for the turbos no visible damage so will go to a friend that refurbs turbos and let him take a look.

This engine will not be going back into the car as I have a rs4 engine with ceramic coated tubular manifolds and hybrids. This engine was built from crank up and has only covered 4k.
davs4

Nice one musty good result if that's all that is wrong.
I binned my secondary air system as well  
Alex talked you into any mods yet  
musty

davs4 wrote:
Nice one musty good result if that's all that is wrong.
I binned my secondary air system as well †
Alex talked you into any mods yet †


Fingers crossed, even if not I bought the car with the knowledge of the turbos be fooked, just have to wait and see

More like the other way round  He managed to sort out his loom problem on the passat so let the mods begin.

This will not be the final engine for the rs4 it's just to have fun for now as I start collecting bits for the main event
SimonS4

It lives on
Doug

that explains why the turbo was seized then! they will defo need refurbed as it smoked they deserve some tlc!
musty

Doug wrote:
that explains why the turbo was seized then!



Yes when Alex went to spin the wheel once we took off the downpipes it would not turn at all once we took the turbo off as we turned it around a piece fell out and then the wheel spun freely
SimonS4

Fickle little things
musty

SimonS4 wrote:
Fickle little things



Tell me about but nether seen a manifold do that crack internally one whole camber moving around
SimonS4

I have heard of cracked or corroded manifold parts (heat sheild issue) coming off on S4's before causing turbo failure
dummi

so are you going to get the turbo's refurbed or sell them on as knackered
aposegil

on monday night i will try get a vid/pics up but the i was amazed to see what had happened

anyhow like musty said theengine out and new lump going in for the mean while. I honestly can't beleive the final lump he has planned and will do the car justice to what I think is a amazing, great looking car to start off with

Ever time I leave the car I cry a little knwon its not mine lol

Doug do I agree with you turbos def need rebuilding as the play is there but not huge also finally sorted out the wiring issued between the clocks and the ECU so all left is the FMIC and fuel pump and Im coming to see you guys
musty

they are sold already
quattronutter

so will the new engine have a pair of k16s?
musty

quattronutter wrote:
so will the new engine have a pair of k16s?



Maybe not sure for now in discussions
quattrokid

our secondary air system makes a whooshing noise when cold... can and does it interfere with MOT emissions if its removed?

is this a job for a novice or take it to someone who knows what to do when its due a big service and do it in one go?

ta

this black beaty sounds just that... just wondering why your not putting a 4k mile engine back in?
musty

That noise is your secondary air pump on its way out, it is easy to move I think the hard part will be blocking the wholes back up (only done it while engine out)
It can be done while in. It will not interfere with you MOT.

The 4k engine is going in this engine was in my a6 (well at the side of my house now) waiting to go in
quattrokid

ok thanks Musty,

if the pump is on its way out...should I address this sooner rather than later? will it damage anything else when it fails before I sort it out?

thanks
musty

Just unplug it for know so the noise stops irmc as long as it is not leaking air its fine but double check with a specialist ie Unit20 or MRC
Doug

the secondary air injection can be removed and the valve holes in hte heads need blanked. But you need to disable the emmisions check in hte ecu so you don't get codes and check engine light.

seondary air injection is a joke on these cars - manufactures bodging emmisions to make cars pass tests.
grizz

If the pump fails you will get a fault for " low flow " I remove the system and tap the hole with a  cap head bolt ..
DavidT

The secondary air system is there to get a EURO3 (or is it 4?) emissions test pass on startup, it will not affect the MOT emmissions pass though.
quattrokid

ok so immediate panic then? PHEW!!

i sincerly hope the engine doesnt need to come out to plug these holes up gents??

I WONT BE DOING ANY ecu messing around with vag com... I'll leave that to Doug or Grizz.

think the cam belt is due in 7k miles so next years things to do list.

Grizz you sound like your an RS6 specialist and your half way to Banbury for me up here so could you do what MRC does for RS4's please?

next year when the belt is due for replacement it will be either done by you or Doug... not taking this to a dealer when there are specialists on here who deal with these cars on a daily basis.


only problem is that as always youlot are at the other end of the country from me!!

Doug when/if your up visiting your family........
aposegil

well just a quick update as mus is a slave driver and not had a day off since he got this rs4 lol

firsty pics of the damaged manifolds


and as you can see the pipe was half blocking the 2nd one


mus showing off with two rs4 engines


what he does realise im going to swop one out for my standard s4

oh what ebay manfolds cracks look like after 4K


ou can just see a dark thin line along the welds. the actual tube is good metal its the flange is a crappy metal

and lastly the differnce betwen standard K04's and the hybrid k04's



and one poor looking rs4


but not for long
dummi

that car looks fooked , wheres the engine maybe you could use one of your doorstops in the above pics
philipwalker

Some one could do with a nice set of overalls.............
musty

cant afford them saving up for some wheels lol
philipwalker

You get a set thrown in with the wheels......
musty

deal so thats a set of overalls, spaces, b7 discs and set of lms with tyre spaced over 12 month intrest free payments where do i sign
davs4

As a fellow black RS owner what wheels are you thinking of mate.
musty

I have a set of 19" LM's but they are only 8x19" good old phillip has a set of 9.5x19" but I want to stay married so might have to pass. And you??
davs4

OEM B7 RS4 19" x 9" in titanium finish    and a set of BBS CH 18" x 8.5" for when I change my mind. No wife consulted  
musty

Nice  Got OEM b5 wheels for winter painted black came with the car and lm's for summer
davs4

Good choice. Hope the rebuild is going well.
Be good to see when finished  
musty

Got a lot done last night and off to MRC today to raid the stock room
aposegil

musty wrote:
Got a lot done last night and off to MRC today to raid the stock room


see told you all he is a slave driver lol  see forgets the others who put in all the hard work lol

should have taken pics but now its just waiting for all the new goddies so we can bolt this bad boy back together
musty

Why are you posting should you not be working on my car back to work chop chop
musty

Some more pictures and a bit of a update well all is well some issues but getting there a big thanks to Alex,Tim and both Patrick's for all your help



[/img]




aposegil

this time mus has def gone mad

he is going full out on this baby pitty its not running yet after our last 12 hour run on the car.
Doug

you need to fix your shaky hands!
bluebrakes

or just get a better camera
Doug

and why are those inconel manifolds covered up!
rik

bluebrakes wrote:
or just get a better camera


Light is what's missing.
bluebrakes

Light does help but as the saying goes "you can't polish a turd"
musty

well if I'm in the picture that shows it's not my camera Alex wears glass hence pictures the Mani's are covered because someone did not ceramic coat them!! I'm surprised no one has spotted the little mod me ans Alex have done to the car

But I must say the manifolds and the mutts nuts really looking forward to how much the car will flow better what workmanship worth every penny
aposegil

yeah sorry guys

lets say cold + shits phone camera + pissed off with certain rs4 = great pics lol

i promise to do better pics.
jimbo

whats the spec musty?????
musty

The spec for now is:

standard rs4 engine with:
n249 deleted
secondary air system deleted
lower compression
phelonic gaskets
k04 hybrids
MRC Stage 1 clutch kit
MRC inconel tubular manifolds
MRC bigger intake pipe
710's
water injection
oil catch tank
DUH FMIC
bigger radiator
oil,gearbox,power steering coolers
no cats down pipes and a duel 2 1/4 exhaust
MRC induction kit
movit rears
B7 fronts
DTS
shortshift
And shit load off ICE
James

Sounds great Musty. I saw that ICE when it was at Dougs and it is amazing kit
James

Plus the rest of the spec isn't bad either lol
musty

Cheers James the ICE is nice but one thing trying to change a fuel pump is b*stard Chris done it for me the first time and i did this time not nice but apart from that looking forward to hear ear drums burst LOL

Forgot to add 044 Bosch fuel pump and 630cc injectors
James

The joys of a false floor and sub etc. Will all be worth it in the end though.
musty

I hope so fingers cross this weekend all done
buzzard

is doug mapping it musty??
musty

NO would not let that keyboard tuner near my car i will be doing it myself with lemming winks

And then watch my engine go up in smoke only kidding it has been booked in with the MRC lads
James

Musty you surprise me. I thought you would be down to see Kim to get is mapped and rolling roaded. LOL
musty

Really and truly wanted a CC map but could not afford it LOL
jeffw

Sounds a lot like my cars spec....with a number of improvements.  What power are you looking for ?
musty

power wise not to sure this engine in my A6 without bigger intake pipes with eBay manifolds and without water injection and oil catch tank dyno'd at 522bhp so would like to see a gain on that I'm sure these manifolds Will flow alot better but will the exhaust handle it that's another matter i want to get a duel 3" exhaust but saving that for the final engine later next year if i don't see much improvement on bhp will reduce boost pull more timing and go a flat torque line well that's mrc job to do
andream88

Hi musty.
Did Doug suggest you to delete the secondary air system?
I've just replaced all the hoses of the system, but i'd be very happy to take it out.
Should i expect any issue?

Thanks
jimbo

just get rid of it andrea, it doesnt make the car go any faster. musty can you tell me more about the n249 delete, i thought this was just an s4 thing. what is ? ,where is it? †what does it do? and why get rid of it? cheers pal
andream88

I've removed the N249 too.
It work in the same way as on the S4, the hoses are connected in different places though.

However, regarding the secondary air system..:
should i simply plug the two big holes (on those 2 things similar to wastegate valves) and remove the pump and hoses?

thank you
jimbo

yes, mines done
musty

Jimbo  it does this Stops the ecu-controlled N249 solenoid valve from fully opening the DVs when lifting off throttle and dumping the charge pressure and lets the manifold vacuum (without the vac reservoir)  control the amount the DVs open and close corresponding to the amount of negative pressure in the manifold IIRC.

Smoother throttle response when lifting on and off throttle is the gain, especially noticeable when feathering the throttle round corners.

I will take a picture to show you where it is and and what to do.
jimbo

top man musty. so why did audi go to all the trouble of developing this system if its no good.
andream88

I've done it as described here:
http://audisrs.com/sutra29762.php#29762

Hope this helps
jimbo

cheers ream-o
ScottR

So Musty, what the hell is that big brace across the front of the engine bay for?
musty

you talking about the bar on top of the intercooler or the big bloke to the left
andream88

Is the bumper's bar....
philipwalker

You lot need some overalls or a tidy dry cleaning fim.......
musty

That's not nice Phillip my brother on the left is naturally that black    Can you recommend any dry cleaners LOL
aposegil

yeah musty dirty man

word of warning lol
jimbo

musty would you post a pic of your front bumper please.
musty

on the car or off?
jimbo

that was quick. im just interested to see if its been cut out and what youve done about grills. ta
musty

the grills look like they should fit and it will be cut like yours with a lazer cut number plate
jimbo

are you keeping the std grills then?
musty

yes will know later for sure
jimbo

you can keep the std grills with the duh i know of 2 cars like this , you just need to lose the fogs.
musty

Ok dont have fogs anyway
Doug

jimbo wrote:
you can keep the std grills with the duh i know of 2 cars like this , you just need to lose the fogs.


i have never seen any DUH car keep the original grills.
jimbo

flashy gs and barrys red one. just tried to find the ad on pistonheads but its gone.i showed it lucas on monday doug.
musty

Right after finishing the car(engine in) had a problem with a break in the loom managed to source one but got bored yesterday took the loom off the car sat on my dining table and with my mates started to source where this break was.

The break was causing the car to run crap throwing up fault codes for map sensor and manifold boost pressure and with bank one egt plugged in when i would clear codes on vagcom car will cut out.

We found the break to be in the molded section, on the molded section we have 3 or 4 metal pins that you use to secure the loom to the bulk head well one of the clips rubbed through 4 wires causing the to touch and short now repaired waiting for last bits of my water injection to turn up and my intake system and car is ready to be mapped

A big thanks to Patrick and Alex for the hand last night
musty

Right she is finally finished after a long loom problem being solved and after hearing about this cam ware I thought I would give her a check and unfortunately it has caught me too mind you not as bad as Paul but they were on there way .

So ordered what I needed and with help from Alex (Aposegil) started over the weekend and managed to change the Cam's,followers,chains,pulley's put her all back together and then let Mihnea work his magic on the car after a few runs she was missing on the top end of each run, eventually we managed to source the problem seems like the water injection injectors are to big and pumping in to much 50/50 methanol/water and knocking the car back so we disconnected the water injection after a few more runs came back with a healthy 440 at the MAF. Now you might think that's a bit low for all the mods I have done but what amazes me is that it's achieving that at 24psi down to 20psi @redline I had this engine in my A6 and got 28psi down to 26 @redline and only achieved 410-15 at the MAF.

The only things I changed was I bought a set of MRC exhaust manifolds and bigger intake pipes it just shows the design process into these two products have been very well planed and executed got to say they are worth every penny and that is alot of penny's She pulls along the rev range where in my A6 it was nothing nothing then bang off she went.


I would like to say a BIG thank you Doug,Mihnea and the Lad's from MRC for there patients and knowledge and Alex for all the help with the work †

Just wheels to go and will get some pictures up.
James

Please post some videos
musty

What do you like comedy, thriller or porn   will do going to do a 2nd to 4th gear video and a 6th gear from 70mph
jimbo

good result musty 440 at the maf is not to be sniffed at, hope mine does that on friday.
musty

Cheers Jimbo Don't get me wrong I'm very happy with the car is a animal just was trying to explain I'm achieving this power while still on the compressor map so turbos will last longer and how good the products are that I bought that allow me to run it like this
James

musty wrote:
What do you like comedy, thriller or porn †


LOL
James

Is this an RS4 lump
musty

yes
aposegil

I have to admit I did enjoy yesterday/last night in this.

my best bit was when Mihnea turned to me says "ok give me f/t on 2nd, 3rd and 4th oh by the way if you have balls try 5th aswell". Of course I had to go for it only to realise half way thru 5th it wasn't my car lol Sorry Mus

Again as mus has said considering this is the identical same engine/turbo's as before except MRC intake and manifolds it behaves so much better. It is a pleasure to drive and aa lot more fun to drive now. The car now has the engine to compliment it
musty

Still no videos at the moment but done a few FATS runs the best was 2.97 and the worst 3.10 what do you guys think??
musty

Well after few tweaks on my engine the car managed to dyno 538bhp but only 461ftlb. I was not happy so started thinking what could I do next to increase the torque stronger actuators, rs6 turbine wheel, head work, NOS after looking into all these option and discussing with friends decided to scrap that all and build a 3.0 block with some big blowers.

After seeing dynos of a 3.0ís achieving between 730-800bhp with 650+ftlbs this seemed the sensible route. Ok a lot of you will be thinking what a nutter spending that type of money in the first place. Whatís wrong with 450-550bhp thatís fast enough but a beg to differ you always get use to the power, if not bored or unhappy with it, as I was at Vmax. The car felt flat in 3rd and 4th and was not pulling like a train as it was in the beginning.


Here is a picture of the start a bare RS4 block ready to be bored and cleaned.





Ok here are the pistons, rods and girdle with my 3.0l crank. As from spenís post the pistons and rods are lighter.








Well been delayed by a few things firstly  the mains bolts that come with the girdle one set was to short so been waiting 2 weeks for them to turn up.

Secondly the flywheel need a slight machining so did the last friction plate of the clutch so the clutch assembly would sit flush with the flywheel.


Rodís and pistons balanced took us (Jp and me) 4 hours as the H beam rods are not very well balance form new one was 4 grams out and there is not much material you can move from a H beam rod without throwing the small end out. So got the rods and pistons within 0.9gram balanced would have rather had it near to 0.05 but hey ho.

The crank is balanced and engine coming together here some picís.







Then it was time to fit the girdle there is alot of clearancing to do to fit the girdle and that took time but all done now and bottom end complete











aposegil

uh i love to have that enjoy

wait i do in my garage lol
Dave

So good to see this finally happening mate!
Whos is the spare longblock? Any confesions alex?
Dave

Ahhh a closer look at the engine...its your old 1!
H8CAK

Looking good musty Cant wait to see the power outcome?
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