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dogmatic

black bessy loba 600

This build started out as a humble intercooler upgrade and has ended up with,,,,

Loba 600 turbos
Loba side mount intercoolers
Loba 3" downpipes (catless)
Loba 650nm clutch
Deka 630 injectors
Bosh 44 fuel pump
O.CT ceramic coated manis
2.4 heads (mine cracked )
Lower compression gaskets
RS4 b7 ceramic brakes
Gripper plated diffs front and rear with gripper torson in the middle (up to 88% going to rear end)  
19" BBS ch's
Bessy was already equipped with Pss9's, H&R anti roll bars, miltec downpipes and cat back and water injection.

mapping is going to be done by viper with a duel map, one running 50% meths with upped boost and timing (mdma). And the other just everyday type.


let it begin, parts arriving (all arrived at house NOT the garge!!!! and the misses will be home at 5 o'clock ) thank you matty B









to fit over ceramics








let the dirty work begin,,.,,


while the enine was out i got the steamer out





if anyone has a particular fetish, i can organize a private viewing
mattyb

fcuk me steve you need help
mattyb

this is so wrong it must be right
davs4

That looks amazing, will be good to see the power from this  
supersi

Will be good to see the results from this build, it's a great balance of power and handling, should be great on track  
ddidds



Santa came in march !
sonny

Very nice, where did you source the Ceramics from?
dogmatic

sonny wrote:
Very nice, where did you source the Ceramics from?


I got them off the bay.
They will make all the difference at the ring
MarkB

Makings of a great build thread Steve so moved to P&B forum.

If you'd like it re-naming though, give me a shout    
iR8V10

Nice one Steve, you've gotta take me for a spin when she's all back together!
supersi

You forgot to mention the Loba low compression gaskets you got, so you can really wind the boost up on the MDMA map
MathiasS

Very nice build!

Good luck!
s4balljoint

when i do mine im gonna put thicker head gaskets on it what amount of boost can be run before and after headgaskets by the way nice build
dogmatic

s4balljoint wrote:
when i do mine im gonna put thicker head gaskets on it what amount of boost can be run before and after headgaskets by the way nice build


I will be looking at running 28-30 psi, and about 25 for the everyday map.
If you didn't have the gasket you would have to run lower than 25.


Dave

Will do  
pjbRs

Dam ! Steve that is a very nice shopping list

Nice wheels too.
dogmatic

Cheers Phil,
Have you fitted your wheels yet?
pjbRs

dogmatic wrote:
Cheers Phil,
Have you fitted your wheels yet?


I have mate cheers, but they're not on the car at the moment as the mrs is car sharing till she gets her new company car.  
Alps

I'm gonna be following this thread very carefully

I think I'm slowly getting to grips with some of the technical stuff - well just the turbo side of things... and even that just the hotside and coldside of things!!

What happened with your RS6 turbo's? Why the LOBA's instead?
dogmatic

What happened with your RS6 turbo's? Why the LOBA's instead?[/quote]

For me, it came down to a peace of mind thing,
I had found a set of rs6 turbos on the bay for £1700 and would then have to get them modded to fit, so would have no come back or warranty.
But with the loba turbos they came ready to fit. So no chance of the blame game.
arotished

Nice!
arotished

Can you take some closer pictures of the LOBA downpipe?
dogmatic

this is the only one i have of the down pipe i will try and ask the garage to take some more.





a better one of the turbo












Playo

Cracking list of parts to go in there mate!

Should feel like night and day to how it is/was
dogmatic

pics of downpipes as requested












okkim

Seems nice, but those seem to be missing the acid treatment, pickling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickling_%28metal%29

I have done that always to stainless steel parts that I have made. Without it those weld seams can rust.
arotished

Thanks dogmatic!

They look good!
RS4Jules

Wow,this is going to be amazing  
arotished

okkim wrote:
Seems nice, but those seem to be missing the acid treatment, pickling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickling_%28metal%29

I have done that always to stainless steel parts that I have made. Without it those weld seams can rust.


LOBA tells that it doesn't make sense for them to do it, too much time and effort and brings the price up on the DP.
aemkej

arotished wrote:
okkim wrote:
Seems nice, but those seem to be missing the acid treatment, pickling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickling_%28metal%29

I have done that always to stainless steel parts that I have made. Without it those weld seams can rust.


LOBA tells that it doesn't make sense for them to do it, too much time and effort and brings the price up on the DP.


Right, André.
It might make them look better, but how often are you going to look underneath your car to take a look at "beautiful" downpipes? We have tried pickling on a set before. After 600 miles they would tint again and look "used" whatsoever. The cost is not so bad, but the labour is a pain in the neck. The downpipes are made of stainless steel and are welded with stainless steel, too. So no danger of rust/corrosion.
okkim

Stainless steel welds can rust if those are not passivated.

After welding, there is less chromium oxide on the surface. How fast does it rost, and does it matter is a different thing, but I like to do it so I don't have to worry about it.

High temperature oxidation – caused by processes
such as heat treatment or welding – produces an
oxide layer with inferior protective properties,
compared with those of the original passive layer.
A corresponding chromium depletion in the metal
immediately below the oxide also occurs. The
chromium-depleted zone under normal welding heat
tint is very thin and can normally be removed
together with the tint. It is, however, necessary to
remove this layer in order to completely restore
corrosion resistance
.

Here is a good info of the pickling.
http://www.outokumpu.com/applications/upload/pubs_113142858.pdf
supersi

from personal experience i do agree okkim and see you weld also as was looking at your signature link (www.valitalo.org) at your DP'S and Exhaust sys and manis.

but really by not removing tint from stainless welds will only cause slight oxidisation over a very long time and at the surface, ive noticed same on my milltek as its not pickled or welds cleaned that is fitted to my car, i prefer to clean stainless welds by hand with grades of scotch cloth gives a much better finish (brushed), but this is very time consuming and hard work compared to pickling, also as you know there are a more then a few grades of stainless steel stock and also welding filler rod and some are better at resistance to corrosion or oxidizing than others and pickling makes more sense on lower grades of stainless steel.
dogmatic

well the build has progressed, with engine out, the cam belt was very loose very loose, so lucky i did all this,,,,,,,,,,,, i think    
and with heads cracked everything was swooped over to the 2.4 heads



















2.4 heads



heads with lower compression gasket


heads rebuilt



dogmatic

turbo loveliness ( lo 600's )








OC.T ceramic manifolds and turbos fitted


1-2-3- lift in we go






in place with loba charge pipes and loba intercoolers





davs4

Nice progress mate looks good  
RS4Jules

Ow yes  
Alps

I can't believe some of this stuff actually/finally makes sense to me  

It all seems to be fitting into place very well dude
Playo

Good effort mate!

Them SMIC's and intake pipes look awesome
dogmatic

well have picked up the car now and is well happy, and after diving it for a bit i had to remind myself it had an uprated clutch, i was expecting it to be like mattb's but it is completely OME feel. its only the chatter of the fly wheel that is different. at the mo i have disconnected the n75 so just running 10 psi but know it will be a fast car when at full boost.
The intercoolers are great i'm getting only 4 degrees above so can't wait to get the water setup agin.
B5_Dac

Those charge pipes looks the nuts!
iR8V10

Nice one steve, look forward to seeing it about!
lynchy

You couldn't post a photo of your car from the side with the bbs black edition wheels ? I always fancied them on my car
dogmatic

lynchy wrote:
You couldn't post a photo of your car from the side with the bbs black edition wheels ? I always fancied them on my car


I will ask Sy to put a pic, but I can tell you they look the nuts, but I would say that  
supersi

he says call me knight rider now so hear you go............





pjbRs

They look great Steve, really suit your car.

Glad she's all back together and running again.
Alps



Now black the mirrors and slam it a touch... oh and take me for a spin in it, please
supersi




gasco

Very nice loving the wheels to. Any figures for this car?
Matt_D

I don't see anything related to uprated rods, i hope there are some fitted
S4Player

uprated rods? why would they be required? pretty sure PeterP is on stock internals and making over 660hp
Matt_D

It's not bhp its torque that bends them

I thought peter had rods fitted ?

All i'm saying is that with meth, big turbos etc there a very real chance of going over the recommended 540 lb/ft limit

I did not mean to sound being funny just wondered if any are fitted as i believe the true potential cannot be reached with standard rods
S4Player

Peters only got Loba cams the rest is stock i'm sure and my track noggy similar spec to Peter will be on stock rods but with Loba cams and supertec inconel exhaust and intake valves and new springs
supersi

Rods not needed at this level
MarkB

and the results were ???

Do you think it's needed to seal the shrouds to the coolers? Not thought of that before.



Did the Robinsons Orange give much more power??  
mattyb

You have a keen eye Mark, shrouds on Bessy and the double clamps on Dougs wide body the other day!!!!
davs4

Shrouds on mine are sealed on very similar to these.
MarkB

mattyb wrote:
You have a keen eye Mark, shrouds on Bessy and the double clamps on Dougs wide body the other day!!!!


It's all in the detail
s4_driver

At what stage are other rods required?

Also how do the thick gaskets affect the driveability. At how many rpms do you have good torque?

Iam thinking about lo600 on a rs 4 engine or making a 3l stroker kit with lo700 or bigger depending on what gives good usability as i life in the mountains.
Juice



anyway back to the topic..
what other plans does he have?
looks good.
MarkB

Locked while I decide how best to split this topic before it ruins Steve's build thread.
MarkB

Now unlocked.

Off topic posts have been moved here http://audisrs.com/about25107
Rasss-4

haha I was just reading that and the pages disappeared!lol
MarkB

Still here ... but not here
Matt_D

What torque figure did this setup achieve ?
supersi

just got this sent to my phone

not 100% sure on torque figure ill call dynodemon and report exact number but looks like 550lb ft or 745nm  

aemkej

s4_driver wrote:
At what stage are other rods required?

Also how do the thick gaskets affect the driveability. At how many rpms do you have good torque?

Iam thinking about lo600 on a rs 4 engine or making a 3l stroker kit with lo700 or bigger depending on what gives good usability as i life in the mountains.


Well, if you do think about going for 3l then there would not be any discussions about whether to replace rods or not, as they will be anyways

The standard RS4 engine's internals should be good to hold up to 600 hp.

Thick gaskets lower the CR. Lower CR will make you lose a little torque and retard the spooling a little in the low RPM's. But lowering the CR is crucial if you are willing to run higher boost levels.
s4_driver

Thanks. Iam thinking about 3l stroker kit or replacing the rods or driving with the standard rods as iam not sure how much more power i can run with 600 or 700 turbos with other rods or a 3 l kit compared to oem engine.

In the last time there were some 3l kits which made problems or died in germany.

Do you have a graph of a 3l stroker kit with 700 turbos or more?
MathiasS

580 aint nothing to be ashamed of ?

K04's make +500 on some cars and only 460 on other , it's all about the supporting mods , minor things can make a big difference when the car needs to make those kind of numbers

hope it drives good ,doesn't break and gives you lots of fun!
Matt_D

Agree with mathiasS

Are these turbos comparable to straight rs6 or rs6 hybrid turbos ?
supersi

LO600 turbos are hybrids, as they feature the RS4 cold side and RS6 hotside

I agree too
S4Player

I would say both cars performed well just because the turbo says 600 or whatever doesn't mean to say it's going to make that power ie my build I'm using 700's but I'll be happy to see 650 and solid torque
supersi

That's right dan, when I first spoke to dogmatic he wanted a car to keep with or beat Mattyb (525hp) he said 550hp and he'd be happy I said L0600 would be fine but did say to him for the extra money I'd go for LO700 and run units with less boost and retain the extra headroom the bigger units would provide so when he wanted more is a simple case of upping the boost. if Stephen from the start would have asked for 600 hp then LO700 would have been recomended. It's the bigger inlet on LO700 that make a really big difference at theses higher numbers.
arotished

All dyno numbers should been shown in whp, not just some calculated drive-train lose because that variates from dyno to dyno after what I have seen.

I'm not that impressed by the torque figures on this car.

Edit: Okey, alittle impressed
aemkej

Torque figures are good, André. It's not a 3l.

Simon is right saying that our choice of turbos was made according to the desired output of 550bhp.
No need to unnecessarily spend more money on bigger turbos in that case. Now these turbos are denominated LO600, as they can make 600bhp with the right mods accompanying. Dogmatic would indubitably see 600 with the headwork done and maybe even more with other cams.
sac

yeh but he would have seen 600+ with lo700 without headwork, what you think?
supersi

sac wrote:
yeh but he would have seen 600+ with lo700 without headwork, what you think?


Yes I think easy Sac, just would have needed 63.5mm loba inlet pipes.
davs4

I personally reckon that the power made is sufficient for reliability and general kick ass on the road power and would be more than happy.........just my 2p worth  
Mikse

supersi wrote:
sac wrote:
yeh but he would have seen 600+ with lo700 without headwork, what you think?


Yes I think easy Sac, just would have needed 63.5mm loba inlet pipes.

Have you done any research of power increase with 63.5mm inlets in any platform? Remember there was supposed to be something like this but don´t know did it ever happen?
supersi

Mikse wrote:
supersi wrote:
sac wrote:
yeh but he would have seen 600+ with lo700 without headwork, what you think?


Yes I think easy Sac, just would have needed 63.5mm loba inlet pipes.

Have you done any research of power increase with 63.5mm inlets in any platform? Remember there was supposed to be something like this but don´t know did it ever happen?


sorry my bad what i ment was....., would have needed 60mm inlet pipes. as lo700 uses a billet 60mm compressor inlet.

http://audisrs.com/sutra230783.php#230783    LO700 TURBOS

http://audisrs.com/about20821.html                INLETS PIPES
Mikse

supersi wrote:

sorry my bad what i ment was....., would have needed 60mm inlet pipes. as lo700 uses a billet 60mm compressor inlet.

http://audisrs.com/sutra230783.php#230783    LO700 TURBOS

http://audisrs.com/about20821.html                INLETS PIPES

No broblems, I also tend to mix those pipes. Inlet, charge/pressure/Bi-pipe..Those pipes have many names  

But I quote myself has there been any flow testing with pressure pipes?
supersi

Mikse wrote:
supersi wrote:

sorry my bad what i ment was....., would have needed 60mm inlet pipes. as lo700 uses a billet 60mm compressor inlet.

http://audisrs.com/sutra230783.php#230783    LO700 TURBOS

http://audisrs.com/about20821.html                INLETS PIPES

No broblems, I also tend to mix those pipes. Inlet, charge/pressure/Bi-pipe..Those pipes have many names  

But I quote myself has there been any flow testing with pressure pipes?


No flow testing done, but clearly our pressure pipes will flow more then oem
dogmatic

after getting the car back, wow !!!! thank you so much to si, rich, grizz, Micheal and martin, the power is explosive, and with 89% of the power going to the back wheels it can put it down, and the brakes are out of this world, i keep stamping on them and they keep stopping me again and again.
And after having the car for two days i installed the second map from 550bhp up to 580, ( i know i should lasted a week at least )
but if you got it use it.
off we go again shedding the f*cking road  
next is the lsd for the rear, but the middle diff has changed the car completely, it dose have some down sides being a plated diff, reversing slowly on full lock, it feels like the gear box is about to fall out,,, but exiting corners, round abouts,,,, my god it so together,,,,
and in the wet,,,, lol'ing...
right i'm off a drive          
Matt_D

Nice info on the centre diff, i have a spare diff i;ve always wanted to modify but never got round too it

Are you fitting a LSD due to the rear wheels spinning up a lot more and find the car cannot put its power down ?
dogmatic

It's fine on the road most of the time, but on the track it will over work the edl's, and eat rear pads up
jimbo

i like it when mine leaves a big black line out of a corner from the back inside wheel.  
Matt_D

Ha ha Jimbo

Mine does that now, just wondering if giving the rear more bias would make it much more erm inside wheel spinny'er

Combined with an LSD this would be awesome, shame the LSD's are £700 plus fitting
dogmatic

a little update, I've being getting the last bits and are Nealy ready for the trip. Me and NJ are doing a trackdays at spa on Monday 18 and the ring on Tuesday,
( the continuing battle RS4 vs M3 ).
I've had the rear disks skimmed and yellow stuff pads, some R888's
and this little beaut




the diff is going in on Monday
iR8V10

Nice one Steve, when are you down this way, would love to check out your car!
pjbRs

Nice steve, it sounded dam good last time i saw it, seriously great spec mate. Hope you destroy the M3.
dogmatic

iR8V8 wrote:
Nice one Steve, when are you down this way, would love to check out your car!


i'll be back next thursday, we'll go up snaky hill,
i'll put £20 on the dash, and bet you can't get at it  
iR8V10

dogmatic wrote:
iR8V8 wrote:
Nice one Steve, when are you down this way, would love to check out your car!


i'll be back next thursday, we'll go up snaky hill,
i'll put £20 on the dash, and bet you can't get at it  


I'm well up for that!  

Text me when your about...be good to have a mini meet Brighton way somewhere?

You going to Castle Coombe on the 16th?  VW/Audi Track Day.
lucky

dogmatic wrote:
a little update, I've being getting the last bits and are Nealy ready for the trip. Me and NJ are doing a trackdays at spa on Monday 18 and the ring on Tuesday,
( the continuing battle RS4 vs M3 ).
I've had the rear disks skimmed and yellow stuff pads, some R888's
and this little beaut




the diff is going in on Monday


You will do a video of battle?
dogmatic

lucky wrote:
dogmatic wrote:
a little update, I've being getting the last bits and are Nealy ready for the trip. Me and NJ are doing a trackdays at spa on Monday 18 and the ring on Tuesday,
( the continuing battle RS4 vs M3 ).
I've had the rear disks skimmed and yellow stuff pads, some R888's
and this little beaut




the diff is going in on Monday


You will do a video of battle?


yep,,,,, it more of a rematch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9o60Z0MaBw

my car was called the rattler, but not this year
lucky

dogmatic wrote:
lucky wrote:
dogmatic wrote:
a little update, I've being getting the last bits and are Nealy ready for the trip. Me and NJ are doing a trackdays at spa on Monday 18 and the ring on Tuesday,
( the continuing battle RS4 vs M3 ).
I've had the rear disks skimmed and yellow stuff pads, some R888's
and this little beaut




the diff is going in on Monday


You will do a video of battle?


yep,,,,, it more of a rematch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9o60Z0MaBw

my car was called the rattler, but not this year
dogmatic

I went and picked up the car last night, and
My god it is good so very good, myself and mattyb were wotboxing till the erly hours, we found the best launch was 4800 rpm but 5200 was a lot of fun, she now takes off like a skyline and with the car fully loaded with wheels and mattyb, we was doin 0-60 in 4 sec flat, And flat shifting like hoons  
It is simply a b5 must, I will get some vids up soon, still gigging to my self at the mo,
lucky

dogmatic wrote:
I went and picked up the car last night, and
My god it is good so very good, myself and mattyb were wotboxing till the erly hours, we found the best launch was 4800 rpm but 5200 was a lot of fun, she now takes off like a skyline and with the car fully loaded with wheels and mattyb, we was doin 0-60 in 4 sec flat, And flat shifting like hoons  
It is simply a b5 must, I will get some vids up soon, still gigging to my self at the mo,


great
A video please  
dogmatic

Results from the Nurburgring
Audi 1 bmw 0  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JPRm6uLnfM
StumpyRS4



How were the diffs ?
pjbRs

Nice Video steve, shame we couldn't hear the beast in action.  Must have been distracting with the bm having its arse out?
supersi

Video Shows how great the CSL really is as STD, I can see how much of a better package the Rs is now, in the previous video on the ring of both cars the CSL was completely out classing the Rs, but the difs on the rs look too have made considerable difference
StumpyRS4

And 888s Si.

But the CSL is fantastic. Doesn't need the bhp at all. Just shows a good driver & a well setup car can match our cars easily.
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