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stbaz

my b5 tqs track day build ............

after a quick three week golf vr6 track car build .........










and only one outing so far with another on the 6th of june i have the hunger for more power and grip....... so with the offer of an a4 1.8tqs for 300 quid it was the ideal place to start.........







lets begin











20 meters of seamless roll cage tube arrived with another 6 on route .

i done some more to it today ...........

front seats and carpets removed .....



excess wieght removal..........





nahhhh we dont need this ..........



then tied the loom up out of the way to allow to paint the floor





then it was start the painting time ........




more soon
frazz82

Will be watching this one.  
BennyBoo

There's plenty more you can cut out the rear seat area..


172cup

Brilliant mate!!!  Fantastic to see the effort going into a track car!! Very jealous!!!

Andy
stbaz

bit of an update on this ............

wheels are now bought and painted... team dynamics pro race 18" .....i went for 18s as i had the ns2r brand new track tyres lying spare so ideal to get the use from them



primed



painted




there 8 x18 but the tyres are 255 35 (as they were for b5 rs4 wheels) so i have had to pull the arches out to allow them to fit



i have rolled and pulled the arches so they are now almost 30mm wider each side than they were . it messes up the line around the indicators slightly with stretching them out but im not too worried as its for track anyway







this rear quarter had a nasty ding in it but its as good as needs be now















front and rear screens removed also for cage building and painting



stbaz

roll cage time ..........

the welding could probably be better i know . however im having issues with the wire sticking and burning back into the tip























































more soon
rob_arthur

looking good so far, with the cage is there a certain number of tubes you have to have fitted in certain directions for strength at all? and you following a cage guide or just going for it?
stbaz

Just going for it mate.

Won't be entered in anything needing msa specs etc ......just fun track days.

Plenty more to come
stbaz

bit of an update here ........

with the current track car now sold and off to live with mb motorsport down in jarrow



i am pleased to be moving on to something slightly better while the a4 is taking shape











2.0 black top zetec , jenvey itb's , omex ecu , poly window etc etc etc

should be quite interesting on knockhill compaired to the heavy nosed golf.

anyway............... back to the a4 ............il let the pics speak the words



















































stbaz

a bit of an update since the last time ......

finally gathered up my "budget" brake set up....

rs4 front discs , pads , calipers , carriers and back plates... along with the same but for the rear ..... i also have a set of new hel braided brake lines to suit



then back to the roll cage ......

the offside a pillar bar is now in however its a little different from the nearside ......this is due to the fuse box being located at this side of the dash





i have also got the front roof bar in. this is bolted in using weld on 50mm saddles









last weekend it was time to collect the focus .............before going to collect it i had arranged to collect better wheels to give it more of a track look............



and here it is .........note rubbish escort gti wheels















and the replacement wheels with new rubber , a lick of white and colour coded valves hahahahaha





big brother little brother





then it was new wheel time ........... big difference





it also has the most horrid steering wheel fitted / welded on !!!!

a snap off box connects via a welded on spline unit attatched to the colum so i had to make up a small adaptor plate as other wise its a replacement colum !!

existing bus size wheel compaired to the new one



adaptor fitted





i then came across this ............. the omex and loom living under the bonnet in a tupperwear tub !!!!!!!









so the best answer here is ...........



a friend of mine taking it off to RA motorsport where it will get ....

ecu re positioned inside the car
jenveys set up
mapped on dyno
and a few other little bits and bobs

so while thats away its back to work on the a4 .............

u.s.a 20vt eliminator kit on route along with a t3 cast manifold





DavidT

This is a super read. Thanks for posting and please keep the updates coming
Challice

That cage is looking good the welds may not look all pretty but as you have cut the tubes so they actually fit I'm pretty sure is going to do its job and keep the driver alive if a crash was to happen
Prawn

There is no easy way of putting this, so I'll be blunt.

Take it all out.

Weigh it in. Spend this money on beer to drown your sorrows.

Next:

Save up some money.

Get a proper cage.

That way, if you do ever crash it, you'll still be alive to thank me for this advice.

That is NOT a roll cage. That's a tube abortion. Your welding and tube notching looks OK, but choice of placement, and method of bending require some serious attention.

I don't mean to come across as harsh, but really, please, take it out and start again.
Andy P

Prawn wrote:
There is no easy way of putting this, so I'll be blunt.

Etc...


I'm afraid I'm inclined to agree, though perhaps not as blunt as Prawn.

There are quite a few issues with your installation and although it might not ever be used competitively it would be wise to follow MSA blue book as close as possible - the guidelines have been put into place to ensure that a roll cage functions as it is supposed to - not to break / shear off and potentially cause more harm than good.

I've noticed the material you're using is fairly thin wall with a welded seam (exhaust tube?) Please don't use this, in the event of a crash the seam will potentially rip and the tube will lose all rigidity. You'll be trapped in a box full of razor sharp tubes.... CDS seamless or T45 is the stuff to use. More expensive but lives aren't cheap.

Bends should be mandrel and not crush bent - again, any dents will reduce the rigidity.

In a properly designed cage, each component is an integral part, designed to take a load and move it to a more structural point - triangulation is key! Tubes should ideally all meet at ends and not mid point - where the tube is weakest.

Built and installed a few myself, happy to give a bit of guidance if needed.

I know its a pain after all the work you've done but I couldn't stand by and not comment knowing that your (and your passengers) life could potentially rely on it one day.

Andy
stbaz

The above is noted .....

Most importantly maybe I should go to trading standards regarding the ebay seller .......

This stuff is advertised as roll cage tubing ......to be fair it's anything but thin as it's 2.5 wall
stbaz

Andy P

Send me the link to the ebay seller - PM me if you like. If that's the case you might have some say if you've gone through paypal. 2.5mm is fine - just looked thinner from the images however if it is seamed, thickness makes no odds. Double check that it is seamed - it wouldn't be the first time my eyes have deceived me.

Feel gutted for you, I know how much effort goes into making cages as I've done it from scratch myself - don't want you to feel like I've just ripped it apart but for the sake of safety felt I had to chime in.

We're all here for the same reason and I always admire anyone that has a crack themselves. I've made plenty of mistakes in the past but its how we learn

Andy
Andy P

I assume this is it -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-8mm-.../331617691053?hash=item4d35f465ad
gizmo

Andy P wrote:
I assume this is it -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-8mm-.../331617691053?hash=item4d35f465ad


ERW is seemed.
Dubnuttah

Shame about the cage, but as others said, better to be safe than sorry.

Belter of a read, that mcrae rep looks well fun!
Andy P

I've mulled over this for a few days now.

The seamed tubing is probably the lesser of the 3 evils.

1. Crush bent / dented tubing
2. Design
3. Non CDS tube

I'd go as far as saying if 1 & 2 are fixed, 3 is "ok". Its the correct thickness and diameter and I may have scare-mongered a little when I said they'd instantly shatter in to razor blades - or words to that effect!

For the design, see the generic 6 point roll cage image below



the front legs should only have 2 bends each. The main hoop should only have 4 bends to a maximum 180 degrees (+-10) - yes i'm aware the image shows a 5th kink at centre point!

Front and rear legs should be connected to the main hoop directly opposite each other and within 6 inches of the top bend in the main hoop. Rear legs should be straight.

If you are installing a cross member either in / or X arrangement, this should be where the rear legs meets the main hoop and meet at the bottom where the opposite rear leg meets the mounting plate or strut brace bar (if you've got one). I believe there is allowance of 100mm for these bars not meeting each other but don't quote me there, its been a while since I've scanned the blue book.

In / or X configuration, the single or primary (continuous) tube should come from the drivers head. In the image below the tube configuration suggests this is a LHD car. (I went wrong here in the past, my first cage has the primary offering greater protection to my passenger)



You will see some fancy variations to the guidelines above (5 bends in main hoop etc) that have been given FIA certs. however these have been designed and more specifically, tested before they are homologated.

Hope this is of some help to you. I know it'll delay the build and you'll have to undo some of the work you've already done but don't give up! SRS needs more projects like this and it'll be worth it in the long run!

Andy
stbaz

update ...........its been a while ............ but you will be pleased to know its picture heavy

rs4 brake upgrade....... size compared to original 1.8 t rears



and koni coilovers go on



fitted the dust sheilds with the brake swap also















at this point the focus was with andy at ra motorsport getting re wired , set up and mapped





when i got it back from ra motorsport the only thing they couldnt get to work was the temp gauge so i have fitted a universal housing and gauge to do the job







alot of the wiring sorted out now .....



then it was track time ......



















the focus done well.......utill 15 mins from the end of the night and it decided it didnt need a clutch any longer ......it was driven home and parked in a corner for the week..... interesting drive from knockhill to dundee in a clutchless manual

then it was back to the a4 build again....... decided it was time to paint the inside and the cage

so the car was taped up.









and on went the primer

















then i taped up the loom and the floors and painted the cage in the colour of choice











at this stage with another track night in two days time i let the a4 take a back seat and stuck a clutch kit in the focus









and off back to knockhill with the focus .... ive no pictures of it on track from that session however ........


then back to the a4 again.............. cage painted ...time to wrap that up and the rest of the car and fire down some 2k ford diamond white inside ....

















then it was all unwrapped .........

and .....i must say ........ im not a welder ...... im not a frabricator and im defo not a painter ....... but im verrrrrry happy with the result so far ....... its not perfect but its fit for purpose !!!!











then the loom was refitted



and attention turned to exterior repairs now












more soon
Challice

Coming along nicely
Noggymike

Great update Baz!

Do you ever sleep?

My mate had a clutch go in his Mk1 Escort many years ago when we were working in London.

It was an interesting drive home every time we came to a standstill, starting the car in gear was fun, but tbh my mate hit the correct rpm with the remaining changes so well I couldn't get my breath.
Prawn

I see all the safety critical advice has been ignored. Shame.

People of SRS - I urge you NOT to get in this car if you're offered a ride. It's not safe.

Enthusiasm: 10/10

Execution: 4/10

Listening to sound advice: 0/10

Shame on you. with the amount of work you're prepared to undertake, this could have been good.
BennyBoo

Prawn wrote:
I see all the safety critical advice has been ignored. Shame.

People of SRS - I urge you NOT to get in this car if you're offered a ride. It's not safe.

Enthusiasm: 10/10

Execution: 4/10

Listening to sound advice: 0/10

Shame on you. with the amount of work you're prepared to undertake, this could have been good.



I too, am worried..

Is this ok..?


TurboTy

Prawn wrote:
I see all the safety critical advice has been ignored. Shame.

People of SRS - I urge you NOT to get in this car if you're offered a ride. It's not safe.

Enthusiasm: 10/10

Execution: 4/10

Listening to sound advice: 0/10

Shame on you. with the amount of work you're prepared to undertake, this could have been good.


I appreciate the OP has not said anything but I feel this is very one sided!

At no point did the OP ask for anyone's advice. The work that has been carried out is high quality, those tube joints are top notch and anyone who actually built a cage will understand how much of a ball ache it is. I've done two external ones so can only imagine how frustrating an internal one is!

At the end of the day, as long as it doesn't need to pass regs, it will provide far more protection than an empty shell and it looks bad ass.

So can we all lighten up as its an awesome build and I want to see more pictures  
stbaz

little update .............

repairs done ..... rubbed down and taped up





and on goes the primer









on with some guide coat





which was then rubbed down with some 600 grit









then on goes some paint









more soon
stbaz

TurboTy wrote:
Prawn wrote:
I see all the safety critical advice has been ignored. Shame.

People of SRS - I urge you NOT to get in this car if you're offered a ride. It's not safe.

Enthusiasm: 10/10

Execution: 4/10

Listening to sound advice: 0/10

Shame on you. with the amount of work you're prepared to undertake, this could have been good.


I appreciate the OP has not said anything but I feel this is very one sided!

At no point did the OP ask for anyone's advice. The work that has been carried out is high quality, those tube joints are top notch and anyone who actually built a cage will understand how much of a ball ache it is. I've done two external ones so can only imagine how frustrating an internal one is!

At the end of the day, as long as it doesn't need to pass regs, it will provide far more protection than an empty shell and it looks bad ass.

So can we all lighten up as its an awesome build and I want to see more pictures  


This ^^

at no point will the work have to meet regs....... at no point will the car be any less safe than a car without a cage ....... at no point will i get into a key board worrier battle ......... comments as above are the kind of comments that put people off posting on forums ....... im not asking for you to bow down to my work on this but at the same time you find 9 times out of 10 the chaps happy to rip your attempts to shreds are the chaps who have no balls to have a bash them self........your all happy enough to praise me for punting 20k into an s4 but a bit of budget fun and torn to pieces........ pfffttttttt   ......  peace out
NogaroDrew

Car looks really good mate and great to see you're doing it all yourself. If it turns out anything like the widebody it will be something special Are you going 90s btcc style with wing and.splitter?
stbaz

NogaroDrew wrote:
Car looks really good mate and great to see you're doing it all yourself. If it turns out anything like the widebody it will be something special Are you going 90s btcc style with wing and.splitter?


that was the original plan mate , im struggling to find a btcc splitter now as most of the ones left have been bought up years ago.

looks like that is just something else i will have to make my self .

cheers  
NogaroDrew

I'm sure you're more.than capable to make one
Prawn

No, I'm sorry. I'm not having this AT ALL.

Do you think I get some sort of kick coming on here and putting someone down? Grow up. I have a life. I have NOTHING to gain from making this post.

Everyone else may sugar coat it and tell you how wonderful you are, but I'm telling you this for your own good.

I'm sorry to be the 1/10 you're not used to, but I've actually built my own car, I've done everything myself, then I've used it, I've crashed it, and almost bloody killed myself due to some sub standard safety equipment.

I had cheap seats, which snapped off their mounts in the impact, and left me and my passenger rattling around inside the car banging heads:



THAT'S why I'm passionate about certain things being done correctly. I got lucky and walked away from a 150mph on track accident without injury. Others may not be so lucky in future.

Building a better cage wouldn't have cost you any more money. Just half an hour on google will tell you that your tube positions and load paths are all wrong. I see no excuse for that.

You think it's no less safe, but with some of those tubes the way they are a small deformation in the shell could lead to a crease at the wrong point and you getting skewered by one of those wrongly placed wrongly terminated tubes!

I'm not saying your level of fabrication is poor, the welding and tube notching looks good, but the rippled crush bending and placement of tubes is absolutely unacceptable. you're clearly prepared to put a LOT of hard work into this, so why not do a bit of research before just throwing tubes in anywhere?

Whether you like it or not, by posting it here on a public board you are opening the topic for discussion.

On my own build thread I have been told many times I am doing something wrong. Each time I've taken the comments on board, done some research, and quite often the advise has been correct.

People don't weigh in on things like this because they 'feel like being a dick'. It's because safety matters and this attitude towards it needs to be addressed.

BennyBoo wrote:



I too, am worried..

Is this ok..?




No, it's not OK. but the OP is so stuck in his ways that he's blindly refusing to listen to those who know better.

I hate that you genuinely try to help someone and just get accused of negativity and hate. My opening statement may well have been a little blunt, and for that I apologise, but the sentiment remains.

As I said in my previous post, it's a shame.
kbw1

BennyBoo wrote:
Prawn wrote:
I see all the safety critical advice has been ignored. Shame.

People of SRS - I urge you NOT to get in this car if you're offered a ride. It's not safe.

Enthusiasm: 10/10

Execution: 4/10

Listening to sound advice: 0/10

Shame on you. with the amount of work you're prepared to undertake, this could have been good.



I too, am worried..

Is this ok..?



No of course it isn`t. That is why you`ll never see any cage with kinks in the tubing pass any scrutineering in any series.


TurboTy wrote:

The work that has been carried out is high quality

At the end of the day, it looks bad ass.

The tube notching is good but the design is awful. Tubes should terminate at load points or the end of tubes, not just midway along a length because it`s easier.

Looks badass. Well that`s fine then  

Just because the OP did not ask for advice doesn`t mean it should be ignored when people point out the fundamental flaws with the installation  
stbaz

At no point have I said your wrong..... at no point have I argued about it...... at no point has anyone been called a dick.......at no point have I asked anyone why they aren't kissing my arse for effort

Simply said I'm not away to get into a keyboard warrior battle ....
Your bluntness doesn't offend me at all....... your opinions don't offend me at all..... no one's does.......

Updates soon.
stbaz

update time .........

a little detail added to the rear ...where the btcc cars had red.....a little splash of blue to match in with the other details



have cut back and polished both passenger doors and to say im happy with the finish is an understatement considering ive never used a spray gun before now and it was painted in the workshop with no booth etc

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