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philws4

My DIY KO4 Conversion

Started my own KO4 conversion over the Easter break and so far so good  

Took me about 8 hours to get the Engine & Box out which when considering it was my first attempt I was happy with.

End spec will be KO'4s,Ported RS4 Exhaust Manifolds Bigger Injectors & 034 Pump. All to be added to my existing spec of Gutted RS4 Dp's,XS Twin Exhaust,RS4 Ic's, APR Bi-pipe,Devils Own Water Injection. Will also be doing a complete cam belt change inc water pump,stat,all tensioners etc.

Found it easier to just take a few pics to help with reassembly so you might want to skip through some of them  

Will add more pics as and when things progress a bit more

https://picasaweb.google.com/1073...25?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqJwaT7n_it4AE#

https://picasaweb.google.com/1073...422?authkey=Gv1sRgCLHj9IGG-aPFcw#
big mac

well done phil very similar to the spec i have in mind just got to source a few more bits and bobs
philws4

Cheers Ian. Hope you get all the bit's together soon. Let me know if there is anything I can help with
big mac

philws4 wrote:
Cheers Ian. Hope you get all the bit's together soon. Let me know if there is anything I can help with


still after some lower intake pipes at sensible money and a couple of cam chain tensioners
philws4

Will keep a look out for you
big mac

cheers mate !!!good luck with yours if you need anything just shout i take it you still have my number?
philws4

Cheers mate,think it's on my phone somewhere. Might need to ask for your assistance with the cam belt seeing as it is not timed up correctly and i dont want to f*ck it up
big mac

no worries phil you supply the tea tho!!!
philws4

Not a problem
MarkB

Moved to P&B forum. Good luck with it Phil.
audimad100

great stuff Phil, i hope yours goes as well as mine did. i would say you did well to get the motor out in 8 hrs whilst on axle stands.
will be keeping my eye on your build mate  
RO55 HYS

Lower intake pipes............just get the xs power ones. Got them on mine with no problems!
okkim

I installed one XS-power pipes, and the lower ones vere a bit too big to fit tightely in the turbo. I had to use thicker O-ring. Pipes were also too short, and the bracket had to be modified to get those attached.

Nothing major problems, but I would assume that this simple products would be ok.
jimbo

i sold a set of intake pipes to a guy on here a while back as he removed the engine to take the xs ones off because they were leaking.
pjbRs

Nice work phil, that is one clean engine bay.

Hope it all goes smoothly.
S4twiggy

shall be keeping my eye on this phil, im looking to do this myself when the fairys visit me

good luck
daybar

Great start, Phil, well done! It may seem like a mountain of a job, but it's really just a lot of little hills one after the other!
Graham

Nice work Phil, good on you.

Nice clean bay too, exactly what I would want to see.
philws4

Thanks for all the comments guy's. I will try and keep this updated as I go.

Had a spare hour this evening and have removed both downpipes,lambda's and 1 EGT  ( loosened the other ) and after a 24 hr soak in Gaz Plus cracked off the turbo to manifild bolts.

First impressions of the KO3's are good considering the boost they were running. Minimal endfloat and sideways play  So expect to see them in the classifieds soon  

https://picasaweb.google.com/1073...27?authkey=Gv1sRgCMb5ncHs5cmQ6gE#

Bit more cleaning of the engine bay & engine before I start to 'attack' the rest of the swap over on Friday.

Have to say so far this has been a far less daunting task than I expected, helped enormously by the information that I have been able to source on here and  by the fact that every nut & bolt has come undone and NOT sheared off ( but it is relatively early day's )
jimbo

dont worry phil it will all go wrong sooner rather than later. chin up  
think_or_thwim

Well done, keep it going and good luck mate, hope your enjoying it and feeling the sense of achievement already!
philws4

jimbo wrote:
dont worry phil it will all go wrong sooner rather than later. chin up  


I lol'd
philws4

Couple of simple questions.

1 Is it best to locktite the turbo/down pipe studs into the turbo?

2 Is it ok to use copper crush washers on the turbo oil line as the ones that came off were alloy?
mikey-s

No need for loctite, they won't come loose.  Not sure about the copper washes, I don't know how well they would handle the extreme heat.
philws4

Thanks Mike. Thought the same about the washers,but wasn't sure about studs
supersi

well done for taking on the challenge, good to see
philws4

Spoke to a mechanic friend of mine and he reckons that they will be fine as long as they are only 'pinched up ' once. Apparently most of the newer cars coming through there garage are now fitted with the copper washers from new.
philws4

Made some good progress over the last couple of days. Jobs done include N/S turbo,exhaust manifold swap,new plugs,Cam covers removed to double check cam lobes ( all fine ) and to see exactly where/how far out my cam timing is.

Looking at the pics below it is clear to see that when the cam belt was last changed it was not done correctly!!! O/S is the side that's out btw.

Cam covers are now in dishwasher undergoing a bit of a spruce up then it's back to it tomorrow starting with O/S turbo+exhaust manifold.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1073...29?authkey=Gv1sRgCMu777GvybXgvwE#

https://picasaweb.google.com/1073...30?authkey=Gv1sRgCMnvy9SJ98H7_wE#
calibra_se8

Not sure if any of the components on the turbo are aluminium but mixing alu with copper is a big no-no
tdiquattro

The water washers are alloy from Audi, and the oil ones are copper. The water ones need to be tightened very hard as well. It is worth replacing the small air banjo bolts on the cold side turbo housing as well, they break off very easily.
audimad100

i would get a set of fitting washers for your turbo build as said you want an alloy washer for the air lines as these will break before you get them tight if you use a copper washer.

keep up the good work mate
okkim

You can use either copper or aluminium washers in all banjos. I have used both without problems.
philws4

^^ I am hoping that this is the case okkim. After speaking to several mechanics about this i am hoping that this will not be a problem    MRC supplied all the washers/gaskets/seals that are needed so they should know i guess.

Banjo's are stainless and turbo's are certainly not alloy so don't see any kind of reaction problem there!

Have got alloy washers for the air line btw

Looking at these 2 pics I am not sure now if the timing can be corrected by just pulling the cam sprocket off during the belt change as both the cams need to go in opposite direction to line up the marks?

Is it just a question of lining up the exhaust cam and the inlet cam will sort itself out once oil pressure is back up??

https://picasaweb.google.com/1073...nvy9SJ98H7_wE#5601428155109301586

https://picasaweb.google.com/1073...nvy9SJ98H7_wE#5601428182003615650
big mac

to set the cams up you need to count the rollers between the marks on the drivers side should be 16 rollers if you count from the left side as you look at it and start with the roller to the left of the timing mark so it wont be directly above the timing mark it is slightly of set the 16 roller should be directly above the mark on the inlet cam do the same on passenger side but there will be around 15.5 on that side hth
big mac

looking at your pics phil they are well out may be worth considering changing the chains while your there to eliminate streatch i will buzz you later mate phone when flat yesterday
okkim

By looking at the photos, I would say that the cam timing is off. And it doesn't change when there is oil pressure. You can't change that by changing the cam sprocket position, you have to change the other cam position.

And I'm absolutely sure about those crusch washers
philws4

Two more quick questions

1. Is sealent needed on either/both sides of the water pump gasket?

2 What is the correct orientation for the thermostat? ( i.e arrow pointing up or down)


Ta
mikey-s

The water pumps are fitted dry from the factory, you could for peace of mind put a little sealer on the gasket, it won't hurt.

The air hole points upwards on the thermostat.
philws4

Thanks again Mike
dace

All looking good Phil. I best keep to the left at Combe in October....
philws4

Cheers Dave

Made some more progress today including cleaning up the front of the engine and finishing off the O/S turbo/downpipe etc ( by far the most awkward side to change )

Decided to look into the bad timing issue with the O/S bank today and found that the belt was exactly 1 tooth out on the exhaust cam  

So have reset it and turned engine round 4 or 5 turns and everything is now spot on  ( amazing that the engine will/did put up with this amount of error ).

So following on from there i have decided to start the cam belt change. New thermostat,seal,water pump, and all associated tensioners and rollers have been swapped over leaving me with just the cam belt to refit.

Have taken a few more pics but have left camera in garage so you will have to wait for the next installment of pics

One more question,  Is there a seal that goes around the base of the dipstick or would a blob of sealant fix the slight gap around the edge?
big mac

so chuffed the belt sorted that for you mate sounds like your cracking on !!!
ScottR

philws4 wrote:

One more question,  Is there a seal that goes around the base of the dipstick or would a blob of sealant fix the slight gap around the edge?


There is an o-ring at the bottom of the dipstick.  It should all sit in flush.  Maybe you've crimped the o-ring?
philws4

Maybe that has happened in the past as that area of the engine was damp with oil and there doesn't appear to be any other leaks, but I have not removed the dipstick just moved it slightly to get the water pump bolts out
tdiquattro

Be careful the dipstick tube doesn't touch the belt when you finish, make sure it is bent a little back, it can rub easily. Well played for getting stuck in.

Up to you but I cut off the threaded studs on the bulkhead around the back of the engine, helps no end when trying to bleed the clutch, change an o2 sensor etc. (not the main ones on the far left and right for the electrical connectors)

The loom on the back of the engine can be bent up and closer to the heads a little too, that helps in the same way.

The same with the ally heat sheild on the bulk head, hammer it with a soft hammer tighter to the shape of the car, it gives more space to work around the engine exhausts etc.

Cutting the heat shields also helps so that they just cover the turbos and curves on the ex manis. means you can get the o2 sensors out easily and get to the dp nuts.

Fitting V band clamps in the DPs is the ultimate, best mod I ever did to the engine. I can now remove just the engine without the gearbox very easily, o2 sensors stay on, no alignment, no driveshafts, no exhaust, wheels stay on the car! Engine out single handed on the friday, back in single handed on saturday (on my driveway). Removing the gearbox on a diy pull is insane anyway imho.
ScottR

tdiquattro wrote:
Be careful the dipstick tube doesn't touch the belt when you finish, make sure it is bent a little back, it can rub easily.


It does seem a little bit of a daft design.  I had concerns with this too.
tdiquattro

Yep, last time my belt was done there was a small chunk missing from it on the back edge, I think it must have been the dipstick, there is nothing else back there.
philws4

Interesting stuff Nige, thanks very much for the heads up
big mac

hows it going phil anymore pics or progresss???
philws4

Was on a stag do in London last weekend so no progress there  

Engine went back in today  Heater hoses reconnected,gear lever reconnected and gear engagement checked.
It was then time to go to a 5 year old's jelly & ice cream party so will crack on in the evenings this week and hope to have it running for next weekend

More pics to follow when i get a chance to chuck them on the PC.
audimad100

top stuff Phil, lets hope she is running next weekend  
philws4

Have spent a couple of hours on the car last night and tonight and have got the loom back in to the ECU,various sensors plugged back in to engine bay and tidied up,air compressor back on, fuel lines connected,aux belt fitted.
So all in all not too bad really

Few more pics ( don't tell the Mrs that the cam covers had a quick lap through the dishwasher    )

https://picasaweb.google.com/1073...01?authkey=Gv1sRgCJO_8ojTw4ut5wE#


What is the protocol for firing up the engine after major work like this?

My thoughts were to leave the amplifier plugs disconnected and turn the engine over a few times to build up oil pressure and finish primming the turbos ,then plug them back in and see what happens

As far as driving the car do I need to disconnect the N75 or is it ok to drive around for a while until I get the map tweaked
audimad100

yes defo leave the ignition amps disconnected, that way you can make sure the oil pressure has built up prior to it running. i turned mine over 4-5 times on the starter before plugging the amps back in  

tell you what the dish washer should be used more often for cleaning car parts they came up a treat Phil
daybar

Well done, Phil, excellent progress - feels great, doesn't it!

As for the first start up, I'd spun it several times with the ignition amplifiers disconnected to get the oil circulated but it still sounded heart stoppingly rattly when it fired and I had nightmare visions of valves hitting pistons and all sorts. Needn't have worried - the hydraulic tappets must have gone flat and needed a few seconds to pump up again. Just turn up the radio!

I left the N75 disconnected (and the old injectors in situ, if you're having large ones) until I was at MRC for remapping.
s4balljoint

Looking good phil got everything now for my conversion i think ill pick your brains when i come to do it    
philws4

Made good progress over the weekend and now have the engine running

Have run up to temperature ( fans cutting in etc ) and left to cool down to double check levels once again when cold. Turned over on the starter with the amplifier plugs disconnected for 3/4 times to build up oil pressure then reconnected and hey presto within a second it was back to life  

So far all that can be seen is a bit of smoke from various parts which were greased/oiled up prior to reassembly which is burning off now that everything is hot. As yet no fluid leaks ( fingers crossed it stays that way )

Checked the timing on banks  091  092  093 and it is now spot on

Check out the short clip on the link below

https://picasaweb.google.com/1073...O_8ojTw4ut5wE#5609609846903406434
dace

Great work Phil, you must be very pleased...
Graham

Excellent progress Phil, glad to hear it's running.
mikeyquattro

Well done mate. Top work!
Paintguy

It lives  

There's something very satisfying about firing up a freshly rebuilt engine for the first time. Nail biting, but great when it all goes to plan  
audimad100

superb Phil, great work mate and saved yourself a small fortune paying someone to do it for you      

ps she sounds sweet mate
think_or_thwim

Well done Phil!!
philws4

Thanks for the comments guy's, they are very much appreciated  

The exhaust is the XS power dual system and so far sounds pretty good whilst sitting on the drive    

I have to say that the first time I turned the key with the amp' plugs disconnected i was listening out for unusual noises but thankfully there was nothing to report  

This has been a project that I have been 'thinking/planning' for around 12/18 months now and although the car has not yet been driven let alone mapped the feeling of reward and satisfaction is great.
Offset that with the thought of taking the engine out and swapping the bits over on axle stands on your driveway/garage and bizarrely enough the job itself is actually not that bad at all. It is mearly just a shed load of relatively small tasks rolled into one but when broken down are not at all insurmountable.

I will get it up to operating temp again tomorrow and fix a small leak on one of the exhaust clamps then bolt the front end back on and wait for the injectors to arrive before i book in the map tweak.

I would say that if you have a fairly good knowledge of mechanics,have the time,space and tools to do this job then as long as you don't set yourself any unrealistic goals then this IS a DIY job.
audimad100

i love your last statement dont set yourself unrealistic goals    me and a couple of top boys did mine in 4 days

you are dead right about having a good place to do it, the right tools to do it and a bit of savy when it comes to mechanics it is doable.
i would also say that if you are not sure about the task then seek some help, you can do some serious damage if you get it wrong
pjbRs

Well done Phil, big respect for the DIY job.

Now how many bits did you have left over?

I know i'de have a lot.
philws4

^^ Amazingly none at all Phil

I paid a bit of time & attention to greasing /oiling up then refitting various nuts/bolts etc as i went so that when it came to reassembly the job was relatively obvious ( if that makes sense )

Have just discovered a small leak on the lower radiator hose so that will need to be drained again and try to re-seal the O ring ( which were both new btw! )

Intercooler shrouds/Front bumper/lights all fitted and lined up this evening so it will soon be time to put it back on its wheels and go for a drive
pjbRs

philws4 wrote:
^^ Amazingly none at all Phil

I paid a bit of time & attention to greasing /oiling up then refitting various nuts/bolts etc as i went so that when it came to reassembly the job was relatively obvious ( if that makes sense )

Have just discovered a small leak on the lower radiator hose so that will need to be drained again and try to re-seal the O ring ( which were both new btw! )

Intercooler shrouds/Front bumper/lights all fitted and lined up this evening so it will soon be time to put it back on its wheels and go for a drive



That is mighty impressive stuff Phil, the most i've ever done is a service.

Should be a blast once its up and running.
 
philws4

A set of these fell onto my door mat over the weekend so just need to source a suitable fuel pump ( 044 ?? ) then it's time to get the car up to MRC to fit the injectors and pump then get the map tweaked
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAP...7533&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I have been driving the car around (gently) with the N75 disconnected and so far everything seems good  Is there anything else that i need to disconnect ??
StumpyRS4

Well done Phil... Just in time for the Kent Meet too!
philws4

^^ Unfortunetly won't be able to make this one as we are at a wedding that weekend
lynchy

philws4 wrote:
^^ Unfortunetly won't be able to make this one as we are at a wedding that weekend
May need to do another poacher meet soon  
philws4

Sounds like a plan Carl
I will get the car mapped and let you know  
big mac

cant wait to see your results phil i have now bit the bullet and booked the week off work end of june to do mine fmic should be here this week!!! well done phil sounds sweet
philws4

Nice one Ian  Hope all goes to plan for you. Give me a shout if i can be of any assistance
big mac

will do mate will try and do a build thread if i get chance!!
philws4

Had a trip to see the boys at MRC this morning and after a few checks  a new set of injectors and an 044 pump it was all systems go

Hopefully the guys will post the graph/video up on here to show the results which i have to say i am very pleased with

454 BHP @ 5347 rpm
684 Nm / 505 lb/ft @ 4027 rpm

Car feels amazingly strong on the road. I only wish was that i did this earlier


Thank you very very much for your efforts guy's  
lynchy

Wow ! Great figures Phil
Matt_D

Nice work Phil
RoGEK

it's already on their facebook site:

https://www.facebook.com/mrctuning
pjbRs

Well done Phil, really glad your build went so well.
big mac

absolutely awesomephil sounds the mutts in that vid cant wait for mine now
jimbo

graemep

Nice one Phil  
Graham

Wow good results Phil.
dace

Superb results Phil. Are you going to treat it to a dedicated session in October?
DavidT

Brilliant Phil

Is the power bhp or ps?
philws4

Thanks for the comments guy's.

Figures are PS actually David so are a tad lower in BHP I guess.

Made a slight error with the torque figure as it was 684 Nm @ 3389 rpm.

Will be at CC in October Dave just got to fit a mocal oil cooler before i go on track so be a good lad and keep to the right  

The car is set up and mapped without the W/I and tbh on the open road with the W/I on the car does feel amazing.
DW

Just read the entire thread. Very impressed well done. You have come across as quite cool and calm about the whole process.
Alps

Maximum credit to you... and everyone who have the ability to do this kind of thing. Top results too
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