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Aragorn

PPC £999 Challenge Build

So i've been wanting to build a track car for a while, but the usual constraints of time and money have stopped me.

I read PPC, and a friend and i were chatting and we reconned that we could build a car for the PPC 999 challenge, but build it well enough that it could be used as a good fun track car, rather than just shonking some heap together for a one-off challenge. That way we have a limited budget, and a "deadline" for completion that will hopefully keep the build sensible.

More info here on the challenge itself and the rules: http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/999-challenge.html

Theres obviously a bit of banter between us as to who can build the quickest/best track car for the budget. Hes going to build a 2.0 Corsa, as hes had vauxhalls for years and likes them, and i decided i wanted something 4wd and being a B5 nut a B5 Quattro was the obvious choice!

As some of you may know, we recently reshelled craigs S4 saloon into a facelift avant. This left us with a gutted S4 shell, which was fit for not much bar scrap. Then the thaught struck me that it would make the perfect base to the 999 project, so craig let me have the shell for helping him out with his reshell.

I'll document the progress in this thread, as i go, but atm the general plan goes something like this:

Buy a cheap MOT failure 1.8T FWD A4, and pull its engine, bumpers, brakes and whatever else i need, then sell off whatever i can from the donor to recoup money to spend elsewhere. The rules of the challenge state i'm allowed to make upto £250 from selling parts. I hope i can get a cheap A4 for less than £500, and if i can make £250 back then i'll have around 7-800 left to spend.

Find a 5 speed quattro box, prop and front shafts.

Strip as much weight i can out of the car, i'm aiming for 1200kgs, or as close to there as i can get. I will probably retain the upper dash pad, and heater.

Use the remainder of the budget to make the car go, stop and turn as best as i can!

Some pics of how it stood when craig left in his new car:





Part of the agreement with craig is i could have the shell, but any of the desireable S4 spec parts such as the leather interior, trim and bumpers etc he wanted back so he could sell them, some of these bits are still visible in the pics above, but obviously they will disappear as he manages to get them sold off. I'll hopefully be able to replace these parts with standard A4 bits from whatever donor car i find!

I managed to spend some time on it at the weekend, removed the seats and hauled the carpet out, and started on removing the wiring harness for the car stereo.

Some pics of the weekends progress:


BennyBoo

Looking forward to the progress
LeeT

Should be a fun project, will be watching the progress
RS4_Russ

Good luck!

Interesting to see the normally-hidden stuff as you strip it out, too

Russ
s4balljoint

so let me get this right the donar shell your doing the 999 with is pre facelift   your friends old car loving the thought of this   if its face lift would you swap the drivers wing with mine and cash your way mine has a dent in it not bad just a thought and cash your way only if facelift
Aragorn

Its my brothers old car, and yeh its pre-facelift.
s4forjim

you are certainly going to raise a few (worried) eyebrows when you roll up in a stripped down s4!!  especially as they wont know its only running the 1.8t underneath.
LeeT

s4forjim wrote:
you are certainly going to raise a few (worried) eyebrows when you roll up in a stripped down s4!!  especially as they wont know its only running the 1.8t underneath.

The 1.8T can be a very capable engine with the right add ons
Aragorn

Yeh, that said its probably going to end up looking more or less like a yellow A4, as the bumpers and skirts will all be A4 spec (and probably the wrong color ).

1.8T's can be tuned nicely, but i dont know how much i'll be able to do within my budget.

Its actually a really good challenge, the budgets set at a point where you really need to carefully choose whats important.

For instance spending the whole budget on some top spec coilovers and ending up having to make do with stock power and plastic wanli tyres isnt likely to make a fast car. Similarly stick all the money into the engine ends up with a car thats great down the strip, but hopeless on the handling course.

Its about finding the right balance!
gizmo

I read PPC too, the £999 challenge looks like fun but with cars like Impreza's and Sunny Gtir's being used you need something pretty serious to compete for top honours.  Good luck, should be a lot of fun!
Rick

I don't know what the rules are, but tyres are the single most contributing factor to lap time other than power.

If you're competing in it I will happily do the tune for you FOC.

Rick
Aragorn

Ye i was thinking the same about the tyres. Maybe try to pick up some part worn R888 or A048's or similar.

I'll be in touch about the tune!
aposegil

love this

once funds allow again i will get myself a 924 or 944 and throw in a 5 pot audi 20v lump like so

http://www.944-20v.nl/

good luck maybe a cheap v8 instead of a 1.8t
andream88

aposegil wrote:
love this

once funds allow again i will get myself a 924 or 944 and throw in a 5 pot audi 20v lump like so

http://www.944-20v.nl/

good luck maybe a cheap v8 instead of a 1.8t


X2

a cheap V8 would be gorgeous...
CraigG

he has a 4.2 V8 in the garage, intended for use in a landrover... ive been nudging him for years about it. (yes, its been sat on the landrover chassis for years awaiting a custom bellhousing.)
aposegil

CraigG wrote:
he has a 4.2 V8 in the garage, intended for use in a landrover... ive been nudging him for years about it. (yes, its been sat on the landrover chassis for years awaiting a custom bellhousing.)


problem solved N/A or supercharged is always better for control on track than turbo
Aragorn

Unfortunately its missing a ton of parts, and needs a custom flywheel and clutch, and i simply dont have the budget for these parts.

Plus the rules of the challenge mean i'd have to take what i paid for the V8 from the budget, and doing that would wipe it out most of it in one fell swoop.
CraigG

pah, excuses. DO IT!
aposegil

depreciation my friend

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-A6...hash=item2c5fdfe2db#ht_739wt_1185
bought this for £200 as i had the bits at home

clutch standard s4 or 1.8t should do and i think you can use the LHD manual a8 v8 flywheel
Aragorn

Yeh, but you need to FIND a manual V8 flywheel from a 32v motor. They're like rocking horse poo, and £450 from Audi. S4 clutch fits, but again they're £180.

Its just not feasible given the budget. Far too much custom work needed. Plus i've never heard it run, and its sat in my garage for two years, so i could do all that, turn the key and find its knackered.

Assuming i can find a suitable A4 donor, effectively i'll have spent £250 on the engine, have got the bumpers, seats and all the pipework, hoses, radiator etc that you dont think about but costs money if you have to find individually.

Probably talking £150-200 to sort the transmission/drivetrain assuming i can find a box at a sensible price.

I need some brakes, even if i use stock A4 288's with some proper pads will be best part of £150

I'll need to sort some shocks and springs and then a set of part worn sticky tyres.

Budget is stretched pretty thin already tbh, so being realistic, the V8 isnt an option.
aposegil

well can't blame us for trying

anyhow i cant wait to see the end result
bboy82

Am i missing something here?!

Why are you planning on tearing apart a running 1.8T quattro A4, and transplanting all the parts onto (effectively) another A4 shell? Why not just use the original vehicle, and strip that bare? All the parts will be there, and you will have paid for them all out of the buying price...
CraigG

hes not buying a TQS??, hes going to find a FWD 1.8T and then a quattro gearbox.

getting a running 1.8T Quattro for under 999 is a mission in itself...
Aragorn

Bingo.

Just took delivery of this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1208090...:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Will post a proper update of the weekends progress in the morning!
dest

Obviously you got the s4 shell for free, how does that tie in with the budget rules? Otherwise you could have a rich mate donate an RS4 or something!
Just wondered...
dest

Just had a read of the rules, wouldn't this part suggest you have to budget the average price of an s4 shell into the costs?
Quote:

We all manage to acquire parts/services for ‘mates rates’ at one time or another, however please keep within the spirit of the competition when acquiring parts/services and please cost your build in accordance with what parts/services would cost the average Joe.
Aragorn

yeh perhaps, i'll see what the folk think on the PPC forum.

End of the day though, its effectively scrap value for the shell, given there was little more than a dashboard inside it, and it had no brakes, suspension, transmission, engine or wheels, its not really worth anything.
dest

As Dan mentioned though, why not just strip out the a4 and use that?
Aragorn

Because the A4 is fwd...

I wanted a quattro shell.

I could have baught an old 2.6 quattro and sold off the engine interior and whatever else, but this came along and landed on my doorstep.

Actual 1.8T quattros are only available as facelift models, and as such still fetch good money.
aposegil

Would it he worth it welding up the front diff to make it just rwd?

And when would you like it built by?
Aragorn

i think the 4wd would be a benefit for both the strip and the handling course and also for general track use tbh.

The challenge is late summer next year.

Might be nice if i can finish it before then though to get some trackdays in to get a feel for the car and iron out any problems that arise.
kmm

Very interesting thread. Keep posting updates when you can.
Aragorn

So an update from the weekend.

I decided to spend some time on the wiring loom in the S4 shell. I've ditched the central locking, airbags and electric windows, as well as the stereo, so i figured i may as well pull out all the wiring for those items.

Started off on friday with the body loom, which was reasonably streight forward as most of it just unplugs and more or less lifts out once you've untangled it.

That left the rear lighting, fuel tank wiring and ABS sensors going to the rear of the car.

I then set about removing the dashboard, and the metal crossmember behind the dash, to get the dashboard harness out. Got the dash harness out, got comfy on the kitchen floor and set about unwrapping it and removing all the wires for the removed components. That took most of the day, and left me with a sore back and gluey adhesive mank everywhere.

The weight savings werent as large as i'd expected looking at the huge pile of cable i'd removed, but a quick weigh showed around 6.5kgs of cable. Theres still a little bit more to come out, as i need to remove all of the aircon wiring from the engine bay harness, and also rewire the fan so its just a single stage relay switched affair. Also the door wiring looms are still fitted, so all in theres probably another couple of kilos to come out.

Took a quick photo of the dash harness in its stripped down state:


My search for a donor struck lucky in the middle of last week, when i spotted this on buy it now: [URL="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120809003654?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649"]eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace[/URL]

So i baught it, and had it delivered on Sunday.

A quick look over the car and its as rough as expected for that money! One rear caliper is siezed, the body is battered and slightly annoyingly the engine was clacketing away as though it had no oil in it.

I thaught i'd drop the oil, refill with some fresh mineral crap i had on the shelf and run it up to temperature and see if it quietened down. Except on draining the oil, after the inital gush, it was dripping out in clumps... Not good, clearly hasnt had an oil change in far too long, and is choked with sludge.

After some pondering i hatched a plan, it needed a hardcore flush. I left the sludge dripping out into a drain pan and set off to the petrol station and bought a gallon of diesel. Put the drain plug back in and poured half a gallon of neat diesel into the engine, and left it to soak for a couple of hours while i had lunch and got the shopping in. Back from asda i drained out the diesel, which as expected was black as sin. I then refilled the sump with 1L of diesel and 2L of 15w40 mineral oil. I removed the oil filter, and was going to fit a fresh one, then noticed the used filter we'd removed from craigs S4 laying on the floor. Being in a pikey mood, i wiped it clean, filled it with fresh oil and screwed it on.

I then fired the motor up, and ran it at 1800rpm for 10minutes.  After about 7mins the lifters finally quietened down and the engine sounded pretty nice. The whole time i had vagcom on and was watching the status of the oil pressure switch, given the "oil" was piss thin.

At 10mins i shut it off and drained it, then i fitted a new oil filter primed with fresh oil, and this time refilled with 500ml of diesel and 2.5L of engine oil. Fired it up again and ran it for another 10mins at 1800rpm. This time the engine was totally silent bar a bit of a clatter on initial startup. After 10mins i shut it off again and checked the oil color on the dipstick. Still golden

So hopefully the engine will be fine. Ideally i need to get an oil pressure gauge on it and ensure the pressure is acceptable, but i'm happy that it went quiet, and that the oil stayed clean after the second flush! Will also need to check that the turbo isnt fubar.

I think i'll do another change with just fresh clean oil, and run it up again to check the oil pressure and turbo before stripping the engine out, that way i know if i need to look at changing the oil pump etc when the engines out the car.

RS4_Russ

Hehe,
  Extreme needs require extreme measures, eh?
One wonders how long that oil had been in there - yikes!
Russ
Aragorn

yeh. Its unfortunately quite common on older 1.8T's and even younger ones too. Theres some history with the car dating back to 2008, which details various bearings, control arms and other bits and bobs that have been changed. No mention of an oil service or even a receipt for a gallon of oil anywhere to be seen though.

Being turbocharged its a lot harder on its oil than a normal petrol, but given its a £500 car folk run them on a shoestring and use crap oil and leave it in there far too long. You might get away with it on a 1.3 fiesta, but no turbo engine will take that for long.

My own car was baught with a siezed engine in similar circumstances, cept that idiot owner had run it until the pickup got completely blocked and the insides welded themselves together.
MarkB

Should this build be in the Projects and Builds forum? It is coming along nicely ...
Aragorn

Yep, you can move it over if you want!
MarkB

Done.

So are you bolting the 1.8T to the S4 quattro drivetrain?
Aragorn

No, i'll be using a 5 speed box as its 20kgs lighter, and much cheaper.

The S4 shell only has its rear diff, the box and driveshafts were all transferred to craigs new car, so the plan is to try and find a box and shafts from a 2.6 Quattro A4, as it uses the same rear diff ratio. If i use a 1.8T Quattro or 2.8 Quattro box i'd have to change the rear diff too which is more expense.

Just found this on the MOT database which typifies buying old cars unseen on ebay:

Date of test:
   05/07/2007
Certificate issued (Pass)
Odometer reading:
   160,999 Miles

Date of test:
   12/07/2010
Certificate issued (Pass)
Odometer reading:
   127,433 Miles

Hes clearly drove it for 33k in reverse

Not that i'm particularly bothered as it was SO cheap, so long as it has good oil pressure i'm sure the engine will be fine, but its a little annoying getting lied to.
hiltoa

The ebay ad says he had it just over 4 years, so it could be that it was clocked to sell to him. Would be interesting to find out how many miles he's done over the 4 years - it could have over 200k on it now!

You've either got a timebomb or a testament to the VAG 1.8T...  
Aragorn

Ahha. Theres a receipt from "HDJones Auto Repairs" from the 3rd of april 2008 for a cambelt job, which shows the mileage as 167742, then another receipt from the same company on the 4th of april 2008, for some bottom arms, and the mileage is then noted as 116142 miles.

So it lost 50k overnight Looking at the stuff i've got here, that happened two owners before the guy i baught it from though. I guess that means the cars done about 177k.

Dawns old FWD was in a similar state when we got it, maybe not quite as bad and it had done 150k when we baught it, and after a flush and many oil changes later it was still running at 195k. I installed a chipped ECU along the way too and it took that in its stride. It used a bit of oil but was otherwise fine. I replaced the engine due to an oil pressure issue, but the crank from that 195k motor is now in the engine in my own car, and needed nothing more than a polish.

So i'm hoping this motor will be fine.

I'll get a pressure gauge ordered up and properly test it out before hauling the engine out so i know what i'm dealing with. I'll see about doing a compression test as well.
bboy82

CraigG wrote:
hes not buying a TQS??, hes going to find a FWD 1.8T and then a quattro gearbox.

getting a running 1.8T Quattro for under 999 is a mission in itself...


So in essence, YES, i was missing something!

But I still maintain that stripping the A4, and fitting a larger rear ARB and cheap lowering springs would be comparable to a lightly tuned 1.8TQS in the handling department anyway. By your own admission your not going mental with the tuning, so why would you need the quattro?

With the reduced weight by ditching the prop and torsen, your giving your brakes a better chance too, as well as straight line accelleration.

Just my 2p really, but good luck to you. If i had a spare grand, id love to have a go just to settle the argument!!
Aragorn

Because I hate FWD cars with a passion.

Accelleration isnt as clear cut, you can get the power down earlier out of corners with 4wd unless you have a diff in the FWD car, and a diff isnt feasible given the budget! You also get a much better launch on the dragstrip, which can make a fair difference to the time.

Not only that, but a quattro has proper independent double wishbone rear suspension, whereas the FWD A4's have a manky torsion beam axle.
aposegil

i have to agree either AWD or RWD

FWD only really works on very light compact cars like mini etc
Aragorn

Even then, its a compromise for packaging and cost reasons rather than a good driving dynamic. Some FWD cars may handle well, but its most definitely in spite of their drivetrain, rather than because of it!
Acidburn

Be interesting to see how you get on with this. Keep up the good work
arotished

Acidburn wrote:
Be interesting to see how you get on with this. Keep up the good work


same here
jcb

some bargains for the stripper project!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A4...;hash=item27c1021e83#ht_500wt_939


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RECARO-...;hash=item2eb9b9c836#ht_500wt_939
jcb

I would be getting busy with the nitormors and heat gun to get rid of as much weight as possible.

next step the hole saw.
perforated internal bodywork saves a shed load in weight.

sure you can get it down below 1200kg.  
do you have to run 4 seats? it needs them to pass MOT but not to be road legal. cut the seat frame out the back and any bulkhead between boot and cabin


sounds great fun
Byzan a4

jcb wrote:
some bargains for the stripper project!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A4...;hash=item27c1021e83#ht_500wt_939


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RECARO-...;hash=item2eb9b9c836#ht_500wt_939


I am watching that 'box, with a mind to remove the diff to weld and make mine 2wd for easy rollelr access
thebig25

So how is this going?

Started reading PPC and this sounds like a bit of fun. As mechanically retarded as I am I fancy a go at this.
kmm

Any more updates on this?
CraigG

hes slacking...
ScottR

Slacker!  
sleeper_avant

i think we need a big stick lads, then we can have a tag team beating session untill he posts good progress lol
Aragorn

Dredging this back up as i've pulled my finger out and am trying to get it finished and drivable!

Its come along somewhat since the last update, mostly undocumented, engine and box is installed, got some cheap coilovers for it (KW rears and FK fronts) and it more or less looks like a complete car, but lots of small bits needed to get it functional. I've also moved back to scotland, conveniently near knockhill, so the plan is a track day toy.

Pic of how it sits at the moment:



Finally pulling my finger out and trying to get it finished, so i sat down and made a list of what needs done to it:

Fit propshaft / headshield / Exhaust
Replace Fuel filter, check over fuel lines and sort engine bay lines.
Check over rear suspension, Torque settings and adjust rear coilovers.
Sort engine pipework, and tidy up remaining wiring, including starter feed (battery has been relocated)
Sort battery mounting (i've relocated it behind the passenger seat, needs some mountings sorted)
Finish putting the dashboard back together
Bleed Clutch and Brakes. Investigate iffy brake line.
Check over front suspension, torque settings etc.
Fit front bumper

Probably other bits will pop up along the way.

Cars sitting up on blocks as i got on with fitting the propshaft this week, and also replaced the fuel filter.

Need to get some jubilee clips to finish the fuel pipes, and i've ordered some other bits and bobs that i've needed to get on with other things.

Only other pics i've got at the moment is of the fuel filter:



And one of the engine bay showing the battery terminal from a BMW that i've fitted in where the AC pipes used to go thru, so i can join the starter cable to the lead coming from inside the car:

Aragorn

Did some more on it this evening.

Finally got some jubilee clips and finished off the fuel pipes. tried to prime the pump and get it pumping round the circuit to pressure test it all for leaks, however tank was bone dry. Fetched a gallon of fuel from the petrol station, but even then it wasnt enough to prime the system properly. Will have to get another gallon tomorrow and hopefully can test it properly!

Managed to install the intercooler (standard one), and the charge pipes on the drivers side.

Went to fit the lower rad hose i got from the scrappy and noticed its got a fkn hole in it, looks like its been pierced by something sharp. So that needs replaced.
Ron

Is it an s4 wiring loom with a 1.8t engine loom? Did it plug straight in or did you have to change plugs on the loom or move any pins around?
Aragorn

its S4 loom with 1.8T engine loom.

Some ages its a direct swap (facelift stuff seems more standardised), but on this i had to cut the plugs off and solder the S4 ends onto the 1.8T harness to attach to the car.
Aragorn

List update, some items done, some new items added!

Fit propshaft / headshield - done
Replace Fuel filter, check over fuel lines and sort engine bay lines - done
Exhaust
Remove weight from doors.
Remove remaining sideskirt parts ready to fit to avant.
Check over rear suspension, Torque settings and adjust rear coilovers.
Sort engine pipework, and tidy up remaining wiring, including starter feed (battery has been relocated)
Sort battery mounting (i've relocated it behind the passenger seat, needs some mountings sorted)
Finish putting the dashboard back together
Bleed Clutch and Brakes. Investigate iffy brake line.
Check over front suspension, torque settings etc.
Fit front bumper
Fix sill
Paint sills, remove lower door pins and cover holes.


Got some more petrol tonight, filled it up and ran the pump for 5 minutes to check for leaks. Everything seems fine, so thats ticked off.

Fitted another charge pipe while i was out and about, only one left now is the DV to TIP, and i seem to be missing the hose for that

Set about the rear passenger door in an effort to finish the weight saving and get the doorcard back on so i can tick it off as finished:

Started by removing all the wiring and the motor for the electric window:


then i took the window frame out and attacked it with the grinder. Used a bit of the frame to create a little stay to hold the window up and bolted it all back in:



I've also removed the silver brace in the photo. just didnt take a pic after. Ideally i want to remove those two squares of tar, then the door card can go back on for good.

Weighed all the parts i'd removed from the door and it came to a pleasing 2.6kgs. Not massive, but it all adds up!
Kent

this is amazing!!!

id be down for doing something like this next year.

link wasnt working for rules and regs?
Aragorn

Yeh they cancelled the 2014 event, not sure if its been binned off for good or if it'll be back next year.

I'm still using the general idea for the build, mainly because i dont have huge amounts of disposable income to spend on the car anyway. I'd like to see just how good i can make it on a shoestring.

I think my spend so far amounts to only a few hundred pounds.
Aragorn

Small update today.

Work has a nice lug crimping kit, so i borrowed it this evening:



crimped the two lugs onto the leads:



The insulated them and sleeved in corrugated plastic ducting and attached to the block:

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