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Moonwalker

RS3 vs 1M on Fifth gear tonight

This Friday 7.30pm, 5th Gear

I saw a 1M at my BMW dealer the other day and that is one of the most stunning looking cars I've seen in a while. Should worth a watch.
Nudenut

Saw it at Goodwood FOS, hated it, yuck... oh dear Amar!!  





That said... the new M5    





Jonmurgie

New M5 = Turbos = yum yum
mikey-s

I've got to say I like the look of the 1M, and I bet it's fun to drive..
supersi

1M looks great, not a fan of the M5 looks too big


We are looking forward to doing our first LO470 1M soon, should be fun!
mikeyquattro

Both ugly...
Moonwalker

Well I only really looked at it from the front Nigel and loved the fat arches, looks more special then the RS3.
doodlebug

I just think the 1 series saloon looks noddy.  From the side it looks like it was drawn by a 2 year old, just looks all wrong.  Yes the details, arches etc are more pronounced than the RS3.....but not everyone wants to shout, and it's that reason I like the RS3.
pjbRs

I would have the 1m over the Rs3 anyway. I want my Rs to shout look at me and my fat arches.
Nudenut

Moonwalker wrote:
Well I only really looked at it from the front Nigel and loved the fat arches, looks more special then the RS3.

Can't disagree with that!  
Adrian E

Think the 1M is very colour sensitive - seen it in black and that looked great. White is a bit in your face but looks ok. Think if the colour helps tone out some of the details then it works. I'd never have another car in an in your face colour - had a nightmare selling one!
aka_dk

1M kicked ass

wonder how a TTRS would have faired ?

prob is, the 4wd just makes it understeer massively
Moonwalker

It isn't just the understeer. The steering on Beemers just has great feedback where the Audi never has. I dunno why Audi haven't been able to get close, the Beemer is a proper drivers car and before you guys start with the 'have fun when it snows' comments. BMW are now bringing four wheel drive 3 series models to the UK, so as well as already having the class leading models, they are now IMO taking away the only advantage Audi had over them, all IMHO of course. I love my Audis but it is hard to deny what a great product the guys at Munich deliver, believe me I tried!!
marc1

Still shit interiors by comparison though  do have to agree on the steering feedback though, I have a 1 series courtesy car at the mo whilst the Leon is repaired and it drives very well.
quattros1

and this from a company that said it would never do turbo engines and 4wd.
Moonwalker

I actually think the interiors are just as good as Audi now. But even when there was a gap, the gap between the handling of the Audi vs BMW was greater then the interior of Audi and BMW. I love my RS Audis but I am on the lookout for an M3 track slag and hope to buy one in 2012 to compliment the 6.
aka_dk

Amar

Go drive an RS4 B7 and an R8

Both cars kick BMW arses

How can u compare having a D2 S8 or a C5 RS 6. Both those Audi are blunt instruments
lynchy

quattros1 wrote:
and this from a company that said it would never do turbo engines and 4wd.
They have seen the light !  
Moonwalker

DK I'm talking mainly about standard 'A' Audi models. I love most RS Audis.

I've driven a B8 and E90
I've driven many a B6 inc S4 vs E46s
C5 vs E39
C6 vs E60
1 series vs A3 and it's the same story everytime. I know the B7 RS 4/R8 and new TT are said to be amazing handling cars, I haven't been lucky enough to drive one yet.
StumpyRS4

marc1 wrote:
Still shit interiors by comparison though  do have to agree on the steering feedback though, I have a 1 series courtesy car at the mo whilst the Leon is repaired and it drives very well.


Just take out the interior Marc!!

Have to agree with Amar.
Having bought a Bimmer for the first time a few molnths ago it's a great drive.

If 4WD comes to the UK in an M3/M5, the Audi market is going to shrink massively.

The Bimmer has for the last what 15yrs(?) been a better car to drive than Audi.  Audi has it's die-hard faithful fans (me included) but the gap will close massively, cost depending.  I'll exclude the R8 from that comparison, as BMW dont have a direct comparison yet.

Thought the test last night was good, and did show up the handling issues between the two marques very well.  You could put the same comparison to most Audi's and most M's.

doodlebug

I found the test a bit pointless.  Two different drivers, and timing on an iPhone, not exactly scientific is it?

It didn't tell us anything we didn't already know.

VAG aren't bothered about the UK market, far more sales to be made out east.
loomx

The BMW interiors are really nice, in fact, the new BMW interiors vs the latest Audi ones, I find the Audi interiors boring.

I think the 1M looks stunning, would have it over pretty much most of the BMW or Audi going.

That said the new 1 Series is hideous.
Moonwalker

I thinks so too, but I also thought the original 1 series was hideous when it came out but not anymore. Probably a grower.
loomx

I always liked the original 1 series... well after it got msport
aka_dk

The RS 3 is based on an 8yr old chassis

Of course its gonna handle like a sack of spuds
Moonwalker

How old are the E36 and E46 chassis though? A lot older then 8 years and they don't handle like a bag of spuds? Quite the opposite. In fact, the 1 series is more or less as old as the A3 chassis at 7 years old so it certainly isn't the age factor, the RS 5 was the exact same scenario on Top Gear vs the M3 and that is the latest MLP platform or whatever its called Audi chassis. It didn't beat the M3 around a wet track with 30 BHP more and four wheel drive.
I'm not saying the RS3 is a bad car, I think it has probably one of the best engines Audi has made 0-60 in 3.8 seconds STANDARD! Whoever buys one, your getting a damn good and quick car and I want a spin.
Spinner

aka_dk wrote:
The RS 3 is based on an 8yr old chassis

Of course its gonna handle like a sack of spuds

+1, glad someone else picked up on this although it's Audi's known understeer issues that really let them down.  When you take this into consideration the RS3 is pretty amazing, however there's no denying the the 1M is the superior drivers car.

IMO Renn Sport models haven't stood up to their name for quite some time now. What presently sells for Audi is the ability to get the AVERAGE driver from A-to-B as fast as possible with as much safety as they can cram into the price package. This simply doens't make for the best or ultimately the fastest driving experience, especially when it comes to these tests. Another fine example of this is the RS5 vs the M3, if I wanted the best
drivers car sadly I'd be taking the M everytime.

That doesn't mean Audi aren't progressing, just unfortunately not in the way most enthusiasts would want!
aka_dk

Amar, you are fairly young, so Audi's have probably been making fairly decent cars for much that you can remember

but vs. BMW, they are are years behind.

BMW have been making great cars for decades .... Audi has not really been a volume manufacturer until the late '90's

and they do use VW platforms, which doesnt help

but of late, the RS 4 and R8 are their benchmarks, easily as good as any BMW

since these, the RS models have been poo ... so lets wait with baited breath for the next RS 4 and RS 6

standard 'A' cars are not billed as "drivers" cars, like BMW ... they are just bog standard, good german cars ... and its a forumlae thats working as they have 4th highest market share YTD in the UK market (above BMW)
marc1

There seem to be a lot of BMW fanboys here ---------- get out!
B5_Dac

I don't think looks wise they're all that. I'd love me an E39 though

I'm sure they are blisteringly quick but I BMW's have lost it somewhere in terms of styling.
Moonwalker

True, don't get me wrong. None wants to come on here and read someone bashing their car, that isn't what I'm doing. I've been interested in the Audi brand from the age of 3 when my dad had an Audi 80 sport, I was obsessed with them to the point at age 11 Audi UK picked me up in a chauffeur driven A8, took me to Silverstone and hired a driving instructor for the day and taught me to drive in an A2 whilst my dad was VIP at the first day of the Audi driving experience. They sent me a grands worth of merchandise including a B5 RS 4 pewter, limited edition A8 aluminium models and I even worked at Audi for two weeks work experience. Got my first S8 age 18 RS 6 two years later and I'm sure I'll be buying a D3 S8/C6 RS 6 at some point.
Nudenut

Just look at LMP and DTM... Audi have the edge when they want to put it out there, watch F1 when it goes turbo, Audi have said F1 would then appeal again due to the benefit reaped to their on-road market  
Spinner

No doubting Audi have the ability to produce Nige, it just appears at present it's not their target for road going production, even on the RS models,

re the F1 subject http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13919927.stm
(watch from approx 2.30mins on the vid - UK viewing only) or http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/52832.html
StumpyRS4

[quote="Nudenut:357538"]Just look at LMP and DTM... Audi have the edge when they want to put it out there, watch F1 when it goes turbo, Audi have said F1 would then appeal again due to the benefit reaped to their on-road market  [/quote

Nige

I believe DTM, the cars are RWD  
Nudenut

StumpyRS4 wrote:
Nige

I believe DTM, the cars are RWD  


Yeah, Point being?
Nudenut

Spinner wrote:
No doubting Audi have the ability to produce Nige, it just appears at present it's not their target for road going production, even on the RS models,

re the F1 subject http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13919927.stm
(watch from approx 2.30mins on the vid - UK viewing only) or http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/52832.html

Obviously something didn't suit Audi at this time... likely no change in the refusal to blindly pump extreme money into a formular that reaps minimum benefit in the current financial climate?
Spinner

Nudenut wrote:
Spinner wrote:
No doubting Audi have the ability to produce Nige, it just appears at present it's not their target for road going production, even on the RS models,

re the F1 subject http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13919927.stm
(watch from approx 2.30mins on the vid - UK viewing only) or http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/52832.html

Obviously something didn't suit Audi at this time... likely no change in the refusal to blindly pump extreme money into a formular that reaps minimum benefit in the current financial climate?

Guess so, pity thou  would definatley have spiced thinks up a tad.
Nudenut

Spinner wrote:
Nudenut wrote:
Spinner wrote:
No doubting Audi have the ability to produce Nige, it just appears at present it's not their target for road going production, even on the RS models,

re the F1 subject http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13919927.stm
(watch from approx 2.30mins on the vid - UK viewing only) or http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/52832.html

Obviously something didn't suit Audi at this time... likely no change in the refusal to blindly pump extreme money into a formular that reaps minimum benefit in the current financial climate?

Guess so, pity thou  would definatley have spiced thinks up a tad.

Yep, totally agree mate!
scoobydood

Its all very easy comparing rwd bmws with the quattro and saying how much better the steering feel and handling are.... closely followed by when bmw bring 4wd to the uk audi are up sh1t creek without a paddle etc ............ but that is assuming the bmw 4wd chassis is miles ahead of the audi. Is it.........? or will it suffer from similar lack of steering feel and understeer as nearly all 4wd cars do.... just like the audi?
aka_dk

Nudenut wrote:
Spinner wrote:
No doubting Audi have the ability to produce Nige, it just appears at present it's not their target for road going production, even on the RS models,

re the F1 subject http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13919927.stm
(watch from approx 2.30mins on the vid - UK viewing only) or http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/52832.html

Obviously something didn't suit Audi at this time... likely no change in the refusal to blindly pump extreme money into a formular that reaps minimum benefit in the current financial climate?



you have to put this in the context of VW AG 2018 strategy to be world No 1.

all their billions of spare cash is going to in R&D and production facilities

not spunking it up the wall in F1 !
Moonwalker

scoobydood wrote:
Its all very easy comparing rwd bmws with the quattro and saying how much better the steering feel and handling are.... closely followed by when bmw bring 4wd to the uk audi are up sh1t creek without a paddle etc ............ but that is assuming the bmw 4wd chassis is miles ahead of the audi. Is it.........? or will it suffer from similar lack of steering feel and understeer as nearly all 4wd cars do.... just like the audi?


Time will tell, I still reckon they will have the same steering feel (great) maybe more understeer but you only feel that when on track or REALLY pushing it.
Cornishmoocher

I went to a 50 th anniversary festival yesterday and they had  a car show there... one of the cars was a german registered BMW M6 Hurricane. I got chatting to the owner, a guy in his late 50's rather unprobabl;y called "Fritz" ( i did stifle a giggle.) This car had over 800 geegees thru a supercharger. I was lucky enough to ( after telling him abnout the lardy barge but lyingly adding 200hp to her) to be taken down the A38.
i have never been A) So scared, B) so fast and C) so deaf.
the thing was A-Mazing. If ever i have another performance car...... it will be one of these. i am in love.
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