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DavidT

The Old Sleeper - Full Refresh and 550bhp Project

Finally getting on with it! There are so many project cars posted and I like reading about all of them so the least I can do is have a go at one.



Previously stated plan included:

• Refurbished subframes, new suspension arms, suspension and all the other associated bits.

• New / refurbished brakes.

• Full B5 S4 Recaro interior and carpet.

• Full service, new lambda sensors and a map check / tweak.

• New tyres & a nice set of OEM Wheels

• Some bodywork improvements.

• More power - not sure what or how


Here are a few of the bits I'd been stockpiling.

034 Motorsport density control arms inc solid metal track rods and hardware bolt kit with new pinch bolts.







034 Solid front & rear subframe mounts and apikol diff bushes




Service parts + rear diff oil and new lambda sensors





The work is being carried out by jimbo and Gordon (GM Auto Services), I will get some more photos up soon
DavidT

May as well start off with the 'before' photos of the suspension. Many of these are truly grim























Well, this is an old car now so what should one realistically expect?

I decided not to do anything with the springs and dampers, They are relatively young (in miles) H&R B5 RS4 coilovers with replaced rear main springs. I wanted to drive the car for a bit with all the suspension done and with the same coilovers and H&R ARB's (21mm rear) so I can see exactly what difference the refresh has made.
jimbo

the rear strut towers have been sand blasted and powder coated , as well as that they have been painted with waxoil on the inner sides as have the inner arches which were cleaned first and are free from rust.
buzzard

Ooooo lot of work Dave, are you doing it all yourself??

Will you get 550 with a tweak or are you planning more engine mods?
ScottR

You've stolen my Thunder David... I was about to start posting my latest little project, but looks pretty much like a carbon copy of yours!

Good to see it getting some TLC after such a long hibernation.
DavidT

buzzard wrote:
Ooooo lot of work Dave, are you doing it all yourself??

Will you get 550 with a tweak or are you planning more engine mods?


Jimbo and Gordon are doing it Paul, they are GM Auto Services, you know what a mechanical retard I am!!!

On the power front I'm not sure. 550bhp is optimistic but I'll have a go at it, I won't do any engine mods at all, just bolt on to keep the current K04 feel.
DavidT

ScottR wrote:
You've stolen my Thunder David... I was about to start posting my latest little project, but looks pretty much like a carbon copy of yours!

Good to see it getting some TLC after such a long hibernation.


Sorry Scott   More like mine is a copy of yours, I've asked you plenty of questions!

Hard live and hibernation have not helped it eh?
buzzard

DavidT wrote:
buzzard wrote:
Ooooo lot of work Dave, are you doing it all yourself??

Will you get 550 with a tweak or are you planning more engine mods?


Jimbo and Gordon are doing it Paul, they are GM Auto Services, you know what a mechanical retard I am!!!

On the power front I'm not sure. 550bhp is optimistic but I'll have a go at it, I won't do any engine mods at all, just bolt on to keep the current K04 feel.


Lol I wouldn't say retard but I know you would probably rather be out for a pint than under the arches

Are still running 17's for quick off the mark? (worth an extra few brake against the big wheels boys;-) )
Graham

A lot of work. Good to see it happening.
jockthedog

DavidT wrote:
buzzard wrote:
Ooooo lot of work Dave, are you doing it all yourself??

Will you get 550 with a tweak or are you planning more engine mods?


Jimbo and Gordon are doing it Paul, they are GM Auto Services, you know what a mechanical retard I am!!!

On the power front I'm not sure. 550bhp is optimistic but I'll have a go at it, I won't do any engine mods at all, just bolt on to keep the current K04 feel.


If you get 550, won't you simply bend the piston rods? I was told by someone experienced that 500 was about the limit for those.

Always nice to have someone else do the job and the shiny powder coating looks great! That 'as new' feel.
ScottR

And your subframes taken off the car look like new compared to the state of the ones off mine when they came off!
DavidT

jockthedog wrote:
DavidT wrote:
buzzard wrote:
Ooooo lot of work Dave, are you doing it all yourself??

Will you get 550 with a tweak or are you planning more engine mods?


Jimbo and Gordon are doing it Paul, they are GM Auto Services, you know what a mechanical retard I am!!!

On the power front I'm not sure. 550bhp is optimistic but I'll have a go at it, I won't do any engine mods at all, just bolt on to keep the current K04 feel.


If you get 550, won't you simply bend the piston rods? I was told by someone experienced that 500 was about the limit for those.

Always nice to have someone else do the job and the shiny powder coating looks great! That 'as new' feel.


You may well be right. I'll have to think about it more. Everyone (including tuners) have said don't be greedy about top end power, it's the low down torque that make a K04'd S4 a fast usable car. I'll create a list of bits that will increase power and estimate what it adds up to!
DavidT

ScottR wrote:
And your subframes taken off the car look like new compared to the state of the ones off mine when they came off!


Really? scary isn't it!

This is a warts and all thread. I'm not planning to sell it, I don't owe any favours so lets see where it takes us    

It's a f*cking expensive game though eh?
lynchy

Good to see the old girl getting a make over David not cheap but worth it
Alps

Looking forward to seeing this project progress Mr T.

Love the bit about the lower down torque. That's what it's all about for a useable car.
genegammage

Hmmm, was thinking of doing something along these lines too, 150,000 miles on mine now and needs a drivetrain refrsh, but want to try and get most of it done with spare/new parts ready to just put on in one go, sunscribed to thread
jimbo

Ive several sets of subframes that have been stripped blasted and powder coated ready for sale.
mikey-s

Judging by the condition of some of the front end bushes the old sleeper should be transformed.  I've done quite a few of these suspension kits over the years,  and they really do give the car the 'brand new' feeling.  

Also,  not sure who's doing the 4-wheel alignment,  but Awesome Gti near Irlam have recently renewed their alignment kit,  and I enquired about their ability to dial out bump-steer like the dealers do and they said they could do it.
buzzard

After all this effort it deserves the corner weight treatment !!!
Noggymike

Trail Blazer Mr T
Paz

buzzard wrote:
After all this effort it deserves the corner weight treatment !!!


Her-hear!  
Noggymike

Paz wrote:
buzzard wrote:
After all this effort it deserves the corner weight treatment !!!


Her-hear!  




^

What does she hear??
jimbo

mikey-s wrote:
Judging by the condition of some of the front end bushes the old sleeper should be transformed.  I've done quite a few of these suspension kits over the years,  and they really do give the car the 'brand new' feeling.  

Also,  not sure who's doing the 4-wheel alignment,  but Awesome Gti near Irlam have recently renewed their alignment kit,  and I enquired about their ability to dial out bump-steer like the dealers do and they said they could do it.


davids car will be going here for wheel alignment , they have brand new facilities for doing this work.
http://www.jamesalpe.co.uk
im just waiting on brakes for this car and its good to go as everything else has been completed this week.
DavidT

genegammage wrote:
Hmmm, was thinking of doing something along these lines too, 150,000 miles on mine now and needs a drivetrain refrsh, but want to try and get most of it done with spare/new parts ready to just put on in one go, sunscribed to thread


I'm on 140,000 or so and it's had some hard use.


mikey-s wrote:
Judging by the condition of some of the front end bushes the old sleeper should be transformed.  I've done quite a few of these suspension kits over the years,  and they really do give the car the 'brand new' feeling.  

Also,  not sure who's doing the 4-wheel alignment,  but Awesome Gti near Irlam have recently renewed their alignment kit,  and I enquired about their ability to dial out bump-steer like the dealers do and they said they could do it.


Thanks Mike, I'm really looking forward to getting it back   Nice to see you today and thank you for the brake parts


Noggymike wrote:
Trail Blazer Mr T


Ha ha, not really  
DavidT

New top mounts:



Lots of parts ready to go on:










DavidT









buzzard

Looking fresh DT......
Is the big unveil at AITP?
DavidT











DavidT
















I'm super happy with it, seats & brakes next
ScottR

That is quite a liberal application of copper grease!
DavidT

buzzard wrote:
Looking fresh DT......
Is the big unveil at AITP?


Thank you

I was hoping to have it for AITP but I've added some jobs so now it won't be! Serves me right really.
DavidT

ScottR wrote:
That is quite a liberal application of copper grease!


Oh yeah
Noggymike

Have you won the Lottery???????

Jamo

g'wan David! 1st the best kept secret was revealed and now it's being pimped
DavidT

Noggymike wrote:
Have you won the Lottery???????



Yeah, did I not tell you?

Free burgers on Sunday  
DavidT

Jamo wrote:
g'wan David! 1st the best kept secret was revealed and now it's being pimped


One tries  
DavidT

We are getting on to the brakes now

I upgraded the brakes in 2003. At that time the Porsche big reds were the preferred option. They have worked very well for me and fit under standard 17 inch wheels too. Time to get these fully refurbished.

I also now have a full set of B6 S4 rear brakes, thanks to some very helpful forum members (I had the B6 rear disc conversion so I thought I'd try the next step up) So the full B6 setup is being fully refurbished and painted the Porsche big red colour to match the fronts.

Anyway, here are the before photos:

Old front discs that were in a sorry state removed from the bells with will be reused.




Slightly grim looking parts before the magic happens:









bigben143

ScottR wrote:
That is quite a liberal application of copper grease!


that's what I was thinking, I wouldn't apply to much, the bolts will find there way undo with all that
armageddon

Hi, same brake setup as me.

Can you plese measure the height of discs? I have seen some where that is possible to use S8 discs that are 323x30mm but I am not sure if they are same hight.
DavidT

armageddon wrote:
Hi, same brake setup as me.

Can you plese measure the height of discs? I have seen some where that is possible to use S8 discs that are 323x30mm but I am not sure if they are same hight.


Interesting. The discs are 322 x 32. Let me know how you get on please.
ghostdog

armageddon wrote:
Hi, same brake setup as me.

Can you plese measure the height of discs? I have seen some where that is possible to use S8 discs that are 323x30mm but I am not sure if they are same hight.

Mate I doubt you can use S8 323mm rotors, they are 59mm height. I have the same calipers and plan to use them on stock S4 B5 rotors. Supports are being made right now. Pad fits the rotor surface perfect without any overhang. My calipers came of S8 D2. With OEM Audi pads 30mm thick rotor can be used.
armageddon

ghostdog wrote:
armageddon wrote:
Hi, same brake setup as me.

Can you plese measure the height of discs? I have seen some where that is possible to use S8 discs that are 323x30mm but I am not sure if they are same hight.

Mate I doubt you can use S8 323mm rotors, they are 59mm height. I have the same calipers and plan to use them on stock S4 B5 rotors. Supports are being made right now. Pad fits the rotor surface perfect without any overhang. My calipers came of S8 D2. With OEM Audi pads 30mm thick rotor can be used.


That's why I want to know what is the hight of porsche discs with correct audi bells.

My supports are from movit, as well as the bells.
ghostdog

I believe the max offset/height of disc for S4 B5 is around 50mm and it is 50/50 for the need of grinding the upright.
With our kind of 4 pot Brembo everything below 44-45mm height will place the caliper at a position with possibility of touching the alloy. I have 17" Ultraleggera ET35 and with stock S4 rotors (46-45mm height) I have around 7-8mm clearance maybe less. As soon as my supports are ready I will do test fitting and will be able to say what is going on.
If you are able to make custom bells for your rotors I will go 48-49mm height, no less.
armageddon

Bells are not the problem, discs are 993TT discs are too expensive.
ghostdog

Indeed, I am currently looking for solution up to 335mm so I can keep the 17". I cant find rotors for our kind of brake pads,  99% of the rotors are for 50-60mm tall pads, ours are 75mm. The only solution I could find are brake rotors from C43 amg. ~49mm height, 334x32mm, 5x112 not floating but with aluminium center and are directional.
armageddon

I measured the hight of my discs but with wheel on(not very accurate) and it is +/- 60mm, same as s8 discs but inner diameter on 993tt discs is 161 mm and on S8 is 144.8mm, that's why you says it touch the upright

Do you think that is possible to grind some material on disc to make it fit?
Noggymike

Liking the work Mr T

Enjoying modding again are we?????






DavidT

Front discs, rear B6 S4 discs, pads, bolts and spacers.




I've got a nice set of Pagid RS4-4 front pads but I seem to have lost them  
Noggymike

DavidT wrote:
Front discs, rear B6 S4 discs, pads, bolts and spacers.




I've got a nice set of Pagid RS4-4 front pads but I seem to have lost them  


It's what happens in old age
armageddon

front discs, do you get them resurfaced?
DavidT

armageddon wrote:
front discs, do you get them resurfaced?


They are nearly new and have been machined back flat ready to accept new pads.
DavidT

Noggymike wrote:
Liking the work Mr T

Enjoying modding again are we?????








It sucks you back in unfortunately Mike    
DavidT

Pagid RS4-4 pads. Not new but they are in pretty good nick. I've never tried them but people who have really rate them. Excellent stopping power, fairly quiet and a bit less extreme than the RS29's


Graham

Where were they?!  
DavidT

Graham wrote:
Where were they?!  


On the shelf, under the kids tennis racquets  
Paz

Great pads, not too noisy if used properly

Discs look pretty funky too Mr.T.

Turning the old slapper into the a sleeper eh
 
DavidT

Paz wrote:
Great pads, not too noisy if used properly

Discs look pretty funky too Mr.T.

Turning the old slapper into the a sleeper eh
 


Hi Paz, I'm sorry I missed this post pal  

The discs and pads came from a very reputable source  
DavidT

OK, the brakes are done, what do you think?





















Too nice to put on a car!
jimbo

About time.
BHZ661

Loving the brakes  
guymcc

They look cracking David! How much did that cost?
Noggymike

Trying to make your car go faster with a bit of "Misano"

Paz

993 Turbo callipers?
Quality stoppers, nice and easy to change the pads too.

Will you be replacing/refurbishing the master cylinder and brake lines too?
DavidT

jimbo wrote:
About time.


It certainly is!


BHZ661 wrote:
Loving the brakes  



Thank you. They look too nice to get hot and dirty!


guymcc wrote:
They look cracking David! How much did that cost?


Thank you, somewhere between £500 & £1000! Expensive but not too bad when you consider how much use I got out of the fronts before refurbing them.
DavidT

Paz wrote:
993 Turbo callipers?
Quality stoppers, nice and easy to change the pads too.

Will you be replacing/refurbishing the master cylinder and brake lines too?


Hi Paz, Brake lines - no. Hoses - yes but not as part of this job, they can wait untill the next work happens. Master cylinder - not even thought of doing anything with it, perhaps that needs to go on the next list too  
DW

Been somewhat preoccupied of late, come back to find all this going on. I am impressed and a little ashamed to look at my own car sat on the drive  

Top stuff David. Incidentally are those pads RS4-2s? I thought RS4-4s were Orange?

Sourced some Recaros yet?
DavidT

DW wrote:
Been somewhat preoccupied of late, come back to find all this going on. I am impressed and a little ashamed to look at my own car sat on the drive  

Top stuff David. Incidentally are those pads RS4-2s? I thought RS4-4s were Orange?

Sourced some Recaros yet?


You will be ahead of me again with all this car stuff soon I expect!

You're right, they are RS4-2 Blue, not RS4-4 Orange. Apologies.
DavidT

The brakes are on, I forgot to post these























Ian_C

993 'Big Reds' - superb!
Alps

Absolutely love the setup.

Why is it easier to change the pads on these?
DavidT

Ian_C wrote:
993 'Big Reds' - superb!


Thank you. Proper 'Audi' setup IMHO



Alps wrote:
Absolutely love the setup.

Why is it easier to change the pads on these?


Thank you

You just undo a sprung clip and pull the pads out  
Noggymike

[/quote]


Proper "full sweep!"
Cheempeej

Get some bleed nipped covers on there dear boy!

I'll send you some if you haven't got any
DavidT

Cheempeej wrote:
Get some bleed nipped covers on there dear boy!

I'll send you some if you haven't got any


Thank you, I'm going to change to the proper brembo ones as these ones with long threads look shit!
BHZ661

Those brakes certainly looks the business  
DavidT

BHZ661 wrote:
Those brakes certainly looks the business  


Thank you. I've had the Porsche front one on the car since 2004!
DavidT

The Recaro interior is in too  


I had the fully electric seats before so there was a bit of work to do:












Very happy to have this interior in the car (finally)



I should have cleaned the rear seats (that had been on the garage shelf for a year) before I took the photo perhaps





I'll get someone to do some improvements on the leather when the car gets some TLC next year.
RS4Jules

Wow this is really coming on  

Weird the front discs and bells look exactly like some lambo ones i have,not sure what model but i think a slightly older one.They are about 340mm though so i may not use  

But why fit those seats like that   you have had them out of the car to treat and clean properly and just fit them    
I love getting new parts and cleaning them first so it all feels fresh when finally fitted.

Keep up the great work though  
DavidT

RS4Jules wrote:
Wow this is really coming on  

Weird the front discs and bells look exactly like some lambo ones i have,not sure what model but i think a slightly older one.They are about 340mm though so i may not use  

But why fit those seats like that   you have had them out of the car to treat and clean properly and just fit them    
I love getting new parts and cleaning them first so it all feels fresh when finally fitted.

Keep up the great work though  


Thank you.

Front discs are Porsche 993tt, they are Brembo's and  may well have been on a Lambo as well, Porsche did a version with bigger discs, I think it was for the GT2?

You are right about the seats, I cleaned the dust off them the day after and they look nice. Car is not here at the moment to get a decent pic, it's having the next phase of work done. I'll get the seats (and hopefully the whole car) tip top at some point next year
dubster67

Liking very much what you're doing, especially all the treatment of rusty subframes etc.  Plan to do similar to my S4 when I get time.


One question :

What's the pedal feel like with those calipers considering the piston area is smaller(44&36mmIIRC) than the OE ones(2x43mm)?
Lcsmith

DavidT wrote:
Front discs, rear B6 S4 discs, pads, bolts and spacers.




I've got a nice set of Pagid RS4-4 front pads but I seem to have lost them  


I realise this is an old thread, but where did you get the rotors from?

Cheers,
Leigh
DavidT

The front discs I usually get from a Porsche dealership but type 911 uk also do them

http://type911shop.co.uk/epages/d...6766/Categories/Shop/10/58/59/674

Lcsmith

So you get the 2-piece rotors and bolt on your original hat.
DavidT

Yes, exactly. I'll need to source some new hats at some point soon however!
Lcsmith

Just ordered 2 OEM discs from type911.co.uk

They were £331.20 exc delivery

While we are on the topic - where would you get new hats from?
DavidT

Good question that

Mine are AmD ones made by West Tuning back in the day but I don't think they are available anymore. Just waiting on confirmation of that.

Movit do this kit but don't sell the hats separately so that's a possibility too.

Other alternative is get some made up as I want 2 sets, dazzer wants a set and you do too?

You can keep re using them as long as they don't have any run out and the holes are still round and not gone oval.
Lcsmith

Well I've not separated them yet so not sure if they are ok or not, but can't see why they shouldn't be ok (fingers crossed!!)

I was just wondering.....
jimbo

tanoga might be able to make you some  
sam-vr6

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