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jockthedog

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown - Pic heavy

It sat in my garage like the 100+kg lump it is for weeks but I got stuck in a while ago and I've just completed the teardown.


Like other teardowns I've seen online, I've recorded the whole thing in photos more for my own benefit when it comes to the rebuild, but I thought I'd share some of them here and also some of the 'special' tools you will need.
I could acually hold all of the 'special' tools I needed, in one hand.
And I didn't damage anything (much!), so don't be put off by the loooong list of tools in the manual for this box. You don't need any of them.
You WILL need some things like a lump hammer, snap ring pliers, pullers, etc and I'll show you how I used the more common or garden tools to do what needed done.
You'll also need the manual, which I managed to download from somewhere online that I can't find any more. I can mail you the pdf if you want it.

So, like all good stories, this begins with a tranny and a beer (the beer is out of shot, this time)....

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

There was a serious amount of oil still in the box, which took some juggling to get out, but with the aid of a pallet I got there.
Had to buy a 17mm allen key to open the main drain on the sump only to find there was nothing left by that point.

I prefer my trannies standing up....

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

And the first part comes off the back end - the drive flange with an expansion bolt.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

Then some looooong bolts which hold the center diff cover on. There's actually another pair of gears in the casing which I'm not touching.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

Here's the center diff - a Torsen II I think they call it.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

It just lifts off.

On the bench...

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

And the tiny magnet, next to it's tiny slot in the casing.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

That casing unbolts and can be removed...

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

to show the final drive with the drive for the front wheels on the right and the drive for the rears on the left...

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

The rear drive and the middle gear simply lift off together and the up/downness of the middle gear needs to be kept the same when rebuilding.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

There are some washers and a needle bearing under the rear drive.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

Now time for the first 'special' tool.
The bearing sleeve for the middle gear sits in a blind hole and it also covers a pair of bolts which need to be removed to get to the dreaded F piston so I needed to remove it.
The manual shows a tool which slips between the bearing cylinders, rotates and then pulls up against those. The force of the puller is spread between the 20+ bearings and so this apparently doesn't damage them.
I wasn't about to spend good money on something I could work around so....

You can get a screwdriver/pry under the outer edge of the bearing sleeve and I manage to get it about 1mm proud before I ran out of useful blades to lift it any further.
I did find a likely looking puller online which had VERY small fingers and when it arrived I needed to add a C clamp to hold it on the bearing but with a little heat on the housing, I got the thing out...

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

My new secret weapon....

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

Now I could turn the box on its back and take off the oil pan...

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

to reveal the filter box, which has two screws and get's binned...

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

The 'spout' on the base of the oil filter is 20mm on this box. Its important to get the correct one.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

You can see how dark the filter is, thru the hole...

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

The valve body!

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

There are 20+ screws with slight larger heads than the others. All are Torx T27 bolts (I mashed the first two with a T25 and had to hammer in a T30)

Those all come off and the value body simply lifts off...once you've released the clip holding the electric plug in the box housing.

This is the underside, with one of the speed sensors poking out.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

And what's left of the box. I was kinda expecting a gasket in here but no, nothing.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

More insides, with the parking brake top left.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

and more detail

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

Valve body wrapped up and ready to send off for remanufacture...

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr


The plan with this box is to have the valve body reman'd by a third party and then use the same guys to final-test the box once I have it rebuilt.
There are million-pound machines involved in both the valve body and final tests and I don't think can knock those up in my garage!


Back to the mechanicals, the driveshaft for the front wheels has a long expansion bolt which holds it to the drive pinion. The chunky teeth on it are the teeth of the parking brake.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

I'm not going to touch the drive pinion because it requires some complicated special tools that I don't have and don't intend to get. I'm not interested in the drive pinion as long as the ring gear remains the same, all will be well.

Now I can remove the cover for the parking brake mechanism. Take care to check how this all fits together as you go along. These pics should help. There's a weak spring and a couple of parts which don't need ot come off.

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0272 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Here's the cover plate and the bolts

IMG_0273 by jockthedog, on Flickr

and the rest of the shifter mechanism which comes out by driving out the roll pins which are shown...

IMG_0274 by jockthedog, on Flickr

There's a plastic sleeve to guide the oil down the drive pinion shaft which just pulls out now. It has the spring sticking out the back end of the box.

IMG_0276 by jockthedog, on Flickr

All these oil pipes simply pull out with a little, gentle and even force.
and there are two TINY orings in the holes which the shortest straightest pipes fit into.

IMG_0275 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0277 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0319 by jockthedog, on Flickr


There are a couple of hidden springs and plugs which need to come out.
There are the springs after releasing the TINY circlips which are shown after...

IMG_0279 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0278 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Now onto the second special tool, this time to remove the rubber grommets from under those springs.
The manual shows a pointed metal tool so I started with this long bolt...

IMG_0280 by jockthedog, on Flickr

And with a bit of dremmelling I got something like the manual showed.
Poke it into the holes and pull the grommets out. Simples!

IMG_0282 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The whole lot...

IMG_0284 by jockthedog, on Flickr



Onto the front diff now, first remove the drive flange, shaft and bearing...

IMG_0285 by jockthedog, on Flickr

And the other front drive flange with the conical bolt...

IMG_0286 by jockthedog, on Flickr



Funny. The manual says that the front diff might fall out once you take the cover off.
Yup, right on my toes!

There's another wee magnet hidden under the little metal cover plate in the front diff cover.

IMG_0287 by jockthedog, on Flickr


There's a pipe which the front drive shaft travels thru which needs ot come out. It's held in at one end with a snap ring, which can be levered out.

IMG_0293 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Special tools number 3 - to push the pipe out requires a very specific width of pipe, which has to be exactly the same as the pipe itself.
After a hunt around the garage I found the plastic part of some shelving which was exactly (to the 10th of a mm) the correct outside diameter and it even had a narrow bit to fit inside the pipe itself.
Some coincidence, I'll admit, but I'm not complaining!

IMG_0294 by jockthedog, on Flickr


Back onto the back end of the box, there is still a shaft to remove and a thrust washer with an interesting shape....

IMG_0295 by jockthedog, on Flickr

That'll do for now. That's all the pre-work done.

I'll start on the gear tower teardown photos next - the interesting bit, honest!
mikey-s

Hats off to you,  most people shy away from stuff like this,  so we'll done for getting stuck in.  That rear drive flange,  is it the later type with the extra recess for the modified seal?  If not,  I've got a brand new one here you can have for a fraction of the new price.
jockthedog

No idea Mike, last time I saw it was a few weeks ago

I'll take a look next time I'm in the garage.

BTW I found no problems at all in the gear stack, so the problems which caused this box to be taken out of whatever car it was in, lie in the valve body.
I'll fit new seals and filter when I build it up again, and new friction rings, just in case.
C J

Awesome write up so far Doug!
Can't wait to see the next instalment.
You going to tackle the infamous drum and circlip through the bell housing and picture it too?!
lewiswlawrence

Great work, thank you for taking the time to share.
tanoga

Re: ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown - Pic heavy

jockthedog wrote:

The valve body!



There are 20+ screws with slight larger heads than the others. All are Torx T27 bolts (I mashed the first two with a T25 and had to hammer in a T30)

Those all come off and the value body simply lifts off...once you've released the clip holding the electric plug in the box housing.

This is the underside, with one of the speed sensors poking out.





Those valve bodies are mental, holes, springs, spools everywhere. Sonnax are making a packet out of their repair kits

Great work though Doug Where do you send the body to for repair? If you're happy to let me know pm me if you'd rather not post here.
Graham

Great post  
jasongtr

personally I think the real skill is not having a bucket of bits left over when you put it all back together  

amazing job there, I wouldn't even know where to begin with a gearbox especially an auto

I think one you nail this one you will have a long list of people saving your number when theirs goes bang
jockthedog

Re: ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown - Pic heavy

tanoga wrote:



Those valve bodies are mental, holes, springs, spools everywhere. Sonnax are making a packet out of their repair kits

Great work though Doug Where do you send the body to for repair? If you're happy to let me know pm me if you'd rather not post here.


Thanks! I'll get the rest of the teardown posted tonight, including removing ALMOST every clutch spring and snap ring in the box. It can be done with VERY little effort TBH, if you happen to have a mandrel press
There are a couple which don't need to come off.

I'll be using Mackie Transmissions in Glasgow. They have been helpful so far and seem amenable to my using their services. They have a great website with pics and vids of those million-pound machines.

I'll be calling them this week to discuss the work and sequencing of such - They might like to bolt the value body back on to the box themselves after testing it, before running the final box spin-up tests.
I don't think I could confidently sell the box without that final testing. This way I can say it's guaranteed to work.
tanoga

Re: ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown - Pic heavy

jockthedog wrote:
tanoga wrote:



Those valve bodies are mental, holes, springs, spools everywhere. Sonnax are making a packet out of their repair kits

Great work though Doug Where do you send the body to for repair? If you're happy to let me know pm me if you'd rather not post here.


Thanks! I'll get the rest of the teardown posted tonight, including removing ALMOST every clutch spring and snap ring in the box. It can be done with VERY little effort TBH, if you happen to have a mandrel press
There are a couple which don't need to come off.

I'll be using Mackie Transmissions in Glasgow. They have been helpful so far and seem amenable to my using their services. They have a great website with pics and vids of those million-pound machines.

I'll be calling them this week to discuss the work and sequencing of such - They might like to bolt the value body back on to the box themselves after testing it, before running the final box spin-up tests.
I don't think I could confidently sell the box without that final testing. This way I can say it's guaranteed to work.


Great looking set up at Mackie Transmissions with some highly skilled people working there. I know it's north of the boarder but British engineering at its best
HPsauce

Re: ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown - Pic heavy

jockthedog wrote:
I'll be using Mackie Transmissions in Glasgow.
Mackies are dogs danglies.  
For less ambitious stuff I know of someone in the South (England, along the M4) who will work on these transmissions and has had training/support from Mackies.
That said, he will not (currently) do full dismantling of the gears and clutches but can do work on the mechatronics units.
He also has the same machine as Mackies for doing fluid changes.  
jockthedog

Re: ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown - Pic heavy

jockthedog wrote:

to show the final drive with the drive for the front wheels on the right and the drive for the rears on the left...

ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr



I wanted to clear up any confusion before it happens.
The pic above has a short, hollow shaft on the left. The shaft inside it is the drive from the box to the center diff.
The center diff drives the rear drive flange thru the gears in the rear cover.
The output of the center diff to the front wheels comes back along the short hollow shaft, thru the middle gear and down to the drive pinion for the front diff on the right.
jockthedog

Now onto the next bit - the gear tower.

First off is the oil pump. Best to stand the whole box up on its rear end for this, and having a pallet helped enormously as I could poke the rear drive shaft thru the slats.

There are two shorter bolts hiding under the two round plastic/metal caps in the pump housing - you will need a long-reach T27 key for those two - and then 6 more bolts which are meant to be countersunk into Usit washers and covered in vaseline to keep the crap off.
What I found were 6 regular panhead T27 bolts with regular washers and plenty of silicon under them.
They are meant to be coated with vaseline to stop the bolts seizing in the bell housing, but I found that all these bolts were really tight and I managed to mash a few of them.
An impact driver might have helped if I'd known how tight they were going to be, but I went with bigger Torx keys, drills, heat (which freed a couple) and eventually had to resort to a chisel on one side of each bolt.

Here's the bolts afterwards - will need replaced I think! And the whole set of tools that I threw at these...

IMG_0297 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0296 by jockthedog, on Flickr

I found the long-reach T27 key at snapon. A 'special' tool that I had to pay for, I suppose, but I have it now!

To lift the oil pump out of the bell housing again 'requires' a special lifting tool.
Here's how to make one:

Take two tiny bolts, about M4 I think. Just too large to fit in the little holes on the outer shaft you see in the housing, and grind away te tips so that they do fit.

IMG_0298 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0299 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Then insert those into the two holes and arrange a puller to press down on the inner shaft and pull the outer shaft upwards. This releases the seal on the oil pump making it easy to pull out.

IMG_0300 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0302 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0303 by jockthedog, on Flickr


In fact when I pulled the pump out, because the wee bolts catch on the tip of the internal shaft, I also pulled the top set of clutchs and brakes, 'tower II', out of the box....

IMG_0304 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0305 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Back side of the pump...

IMG_0306 by jockthedog, on Flickr

I'm not dismantling the pump for now, so it goes on the shelf.

There's a thrust washer and needle bearing under the oil pump and on top of tower II.

IMG_0308 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Tower II is the A, B and half of the C clutches.
Basically a nested set of cylinders which can be braked against each other, causing power to be transmitted in some way. The exact details aren't worth diving into here, but the basic rule is that with a sun gear, planet gears and a ring gear around those, if you stop any one of those from moving then power is transmitted in some way.

First things to pop off on the lower (non pump) end are the inner disk carrier C (on top) which is held in with a simple snap ring.

Inner disk carrier B (underneath) comes out next, and a bearing with an integral thrust washer

IMG_0310 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Next the A clutch inner disk carrier comes off with the attached shaft. That shaft will end up in the middle of a sun gear, lower in the box.

IMG_0311 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Clutch B - the larger one, lifts off the splines on the input shaft.

IMG_0312 by jockthedog, on Flickr

You can clearly see the layers of brown friction material and thicker steel plates in the B clutch. The friction plates' teeth are all lined up, where they were interlocked with the B Inner Disk Carrier. Activating clutch B would lock the B Inner disk to the B outer shell. Since the B outer shell is driven by the input shaft, the B inner carrier would then rotate at the same speed as that shaft.

IMG_0313 by jockthedog, on Flickr

By combining various clutches/brakes, different gear ratios are created.
Most of them will be useless, but a select few combinations are what we need.

Possible signs of overheating on top of the A clutch, so I may well replace that bearing.

IMG_0314 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The snap rings are easily detached and the rings lift out. Note the heaviest ring goes on top, under the snap ring and there will be a thin, possibly wavy plate at the bottom of the stack. The dark side of the friction plates is downwards.

IMG_0316 by jockthedog, on Flickr


Here's the A clutch rings

IMG_0318 by jockthedog, on Flickr

All the rings (I inspected every single one) were fine, to the eye. I can measure the total thinkness of each stack to check that they have plenty life in them, otherwise I will replace them. The entire friction kit is 'only' 300-odd quid.

I'll come back to the pesky clutch springs in a while.


Now the C clutch, with another bearing with integral washer lifts out of the casing...

IMG_0322 by jockthedog, on Flickr

And the central shaft simply pulls out - there's another bearing underneath.

IMG_0323 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0326 by jockthedog, on Flickr


This is what you should see inside the box now...

IMG_0324 by jockthedog, on Flickr

There is a giant snap ring inside the casing, holding the next bit in.
Trying to lift this next part - the D/E Brake drum and (heavy!) planetary gearsets - out was going to be tricky and again a special tool is available.

I made my own by using a small bearing puller inside the shaft, which has a nice lip inside it.

The correct tool attaches thru all of the the planetary gear carriers below the D-E drum but I wasn't bothered about that - this will make it tricky to reinstall so i will likely make another tool to do that job, when I get to it.
This way I get the D-E drum and planetary gears I and II, in one go.

Here's my lifting tool:
Slide hammer shaft with an internal bearing puller attached. Works a treat!

IMG_0327 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0329 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0332 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Here's the planetary gearset III, left in the box. The sun gear is actually two sun gears on a short shaft

IMG_0331 by jockthedog, on Flickr


The D-E drum simply lifts off (there are more needle bearings of course) and the clutch rings are remopved as normal.

IMG_0333 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Flickr decided that this was an image of abstract art.....pure engineering beauty!

IMG_0335 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Finally the planetary gears

The gearset III lifts out of the box...

IMG_0340 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Now the stack of other stuff

IMG_0337 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Planetary carrier E prises off, with a loose washer on top.

IMG_0339 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0341 by jockthedog, on Flickr

flipping the drum over, remove the snap ring and the ring gear and other gears will follow

IMG_0342 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0343 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0344 by jockthedog, on Flickr

There is a final sun gear to remove, with a bearing on top of it...

IMG_0345 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0346 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Note the orientation of the oil groove in the sun gear wrt the bearing..

IMG_0350 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Planetary gears removed...

IMG_0351 by jockthedog, on Flickr





Now at this point there was a Klunk from somewhere in the garage and I eventually found this outer bearing race and shim had simply fallen out of the back end of the box. Apparently it is meant to be hand-loose. The casing must have warmed up with my body heat and the race got loose enough to fall out.

To remind me where it goes....

IMG_0353 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Not only that but while I was looking at this, there was a second Klunk.

Exact same thing, but this time one of the front diff bearings!

IMG_0356 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Ghosties! Actually, come to think of it, it was halloween, so maybe I should have been more scared!


Anyway, onto the final thing to come out of the box - reverse gear clutch F.
This part is notorious for going wrong so I was interested to see it.

First you need to remove the 12 countersunk bolts from the back end of the box. To save mashing them, I used an impact driver to crack these off, although on paper they should only be 23Nm tight.
More like 123Nm! Still, I got them all out with none stripped...

IMG_0354 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Then the F clutch was tapped out of the box from behind.

IMG_0358 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The snapring can be removed to release the piston mechanism and the clutch rings come out as usual....


IMG_0360 by jockthedog, on Flickr

There is no need to release this snap ring.

IMG_0361 by jockthedog, on Flickr



OK, that will do for this post - better save my work.

Next post will be the clutch rings and how to depress those with some odds and sods you might have around...
Noggymike

Great work so far Doug!



ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr


That looks like an awesome tool I need one of those at work!

Was it expensive???
jockthedog

At last, onto the bit I was kinda dreading.

There are some special tools for depressing the clutch springs to get the pistons out (to replace all the orings) and those are much more special that anything you can buy online.

Each is basically a flat washer of a certain diameter (inches) with legs up to a cross bar which is pressed down to release the snap rings or split rings which hold the piston in place. The springs are how the pistons return after use.

They have many teeth on them, much like a normal clutch does, all of which have to be depressed together (or not, as it turns out!).

I started with the easiest one, clutch B, which has a ring on top of the spring and below the snap ring. The idea is to press down on the ring and have access to prise out the snap ring.

A length of 3mm mild steel, bent with some heat and a lump hammer into a C shape with a flat back, and with the prongs of the C shaped slightly to follow the curve of the ring.
This is strong enough to use with my hydraulic mandrel press and there was still enough access to get at the snap ring,

IMG_0365 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0366 by jockthedog, on Flickr

You can see how the snap ring sits in the depression in the ring that gets depressed. That stops you being able to simply prise it out.

IMG_0367 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The spring lifts out and then you have to tug at the piston to get it out, if you don't have compressed air to hand.

IMG_0370 by jockthedog, on Flickr

I used the same tool, sideways, with a couple of blocks of wood, to depress the A clutch spring and remove the snap ring

IMG_0371 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The lid comes off it and there are two springs underneath in fact

IMG_0373 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Next up is this part - the C clutch.
A dod of square steel to push down on and an old bearing shell, leaves JUST enough access to remove two half-rings. I found that pressing more to one side than the other allowed me to first ease out one half ring, then to shuffle the other around into the same position where there was enough room to get it out.

IMG_0385 by jockthedog, on Flickr

I actually found that this bearing shell - from the main pinion bearing in an 01E box - was a better fit and provided better access.

IMG_0386 by jockthedog, on Flickr

All the bits, including the piston...

IMG_0387 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0388 by jockthedog, on Flickr

I used the same bearing shell on the top of the D-E drum to get that spring out...

IMG_0390 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The piston fell out easy enough when I tapped the drum upside down on the bench...

IMG_0393 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0394 by jockthedog, on Flickr

And then the other side of the drum has this very large diameter spring which I have no chance of depressing all of at once.
There is a snap ring which needs to come out.

IMG_0391 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Time for special tool number.... ummm 5? 6?

Whatever, the special tool required is an M10 bolt...

By pressing this down on individual teeth of the spring, I worked my way around in 4 or 5 steps, eventually freeing the snap ring.

IMG_0395 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The piston can be prised out by working around the outside of the drum, poking a small screwdriver thru the gaps in the drum, and the center sleeve simply taps out too...

IMG_0398 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Finally the 'interesting' F clutch piston - will it be knackered?

Again using the same bearing shell, but with a couple of sockets as standoffs. In fact the sockets were slightly different heights which was perfect to press slightly more on one side, where I could easily remove the half-rings, one at a time.

IMG_0399 by jockthedog, on Flickr

F clutch disassembled:

IMG_0400 by jockthedog, on Flickr

And the piston is in perfect order.


IMG_0401 by jockthedog, on Flickr


And that is that!
I don't see much point in dismantling the oil pump, but I might do it anyway.

Next step is to get the valve body remanned while I rebuild the box!
tanoga

Noggymike wrote:
Great work so far Doug!



[url=https://flic.kr/p/ABuQiF]


That looks like an awesome tool I need one of those at work!

Was it expensive???


and just how do you propose to cut grass with that
jockthedog

Noggymike wrote:
Great work so far Doug!



ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr


That looks like an awesome tool I need one of those at work!

Was it expensive???


19.99 from amazon
tanoga

I reckon ZF are gonna come along and steal this thread for their own repair manual Great write up Doug
quattrodan

jockthedog wrote:
No idea Mike, last time I saw it was a few weeks ago

I'll take a look next time I'm in the garage.

BTW I found no problems at all in the gear stack, so the problems which caused this box to be taken out of whatever car it was in, lie in the valve body.
I'll fit new seals and filter when I build it up again, and new friction rings, just in case.


When it was in my S6 it had no major problems, it was just a little jerky on shifts which I think was the valve body. It was removed as I have done a manual conversion on my S6.
Noggymike

jockthedog wrote:
Noggymike wrote:
Great work so far Doug!



ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr


That looks like an awesome tool I need one of those at work!

Was it expensive???


19.99 from amazon



Alex@Fontain

What a great thread; really interesting to see the innards of the beastie. I only get to see the sparkly oil that comes out of a dead one
jimbo

makes a b5 box look pretty simple eh doug  
Noggymike

jimbo wrote:
makes a b5 box look pretty simple eh doug  



Lol!
dhali

You Sir are a genius  
Nobby

Epic stuff! Well done.
jockthedog

quick update - got the valve body back from Mackies, repaired.
Was too worn and so one part of it needed replaced.
So that was the original problem. I could have left the box alone and been fine, but this way was more fun
Also picked up a new filter and the rebuild kit with all the orings (dozens of those!).

So I'm 800 notes lighter but I have all the bits now to rebuild the box.
I'll post some pics soon.

Unfortunately Mackies are not set up to test the whole box - they don't see enough of these quattro boxes to make it worth their while to set up their machines to do it.
So I'll either need to use this one myself, if/when my own box goes pop, or sell it on with no guarantee it'll work

Anybody want to be a guinea pig?
jockthedog

I've been busy over the xmas hols and again this weekend to start putting the box back together.

As I mentioned there are dozens of orings to replace, on all the pistons and such like, and I also did some measurements of the clutch packs, with a thought of reshimming them,

Again there is a 'special' tool for this, but it's not so special. Basically a flat plate with a notch that sits on top of the clutch packs, which are compressed by 200Nm force, and then the depth of the pack is measured thru the notch.

Fortunately I have 20kg of steel plates that I use on my press, and 20kg times gravity gives 200Nm - nice and simple.

I got a dod of aluminium 'ecoplate' which is very flat, cut a notch in it and did the measurements with my new vernier depth gauge..

Measuring clutch packs by jockthedog, on Flickr

Measuring clutch packs by jockthedog, on Flickr

The idea is that you measure the depth of the pack and also the depth of the place it installs into, up to the base of the snap ring which holds it all in.
There is a range of what 'extra' space there should be, for each clutch. eg 1.4-1.7mm
I found that several clutches were worn to some degree and so I got some thicker snap rings to bring the thing back into spec.

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr



Here I am starting to replace the o-rings, one at a time and working from a checklist inside the box that they came in....

Measuring clutch packs by jockthedog, on Flickr



Now for the rebuild - one very clean housing. The box is standing vertically on my B+D workbench.

And believe it or not, it smells of 'new car'!

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr


First thing is to mount the freewheel back into the F Clutch housing with a simple snap ring

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr

Now take one longish M8 bolt and cut the head off ( I used an old strech bolt which normally holds on the drive shafts on an 01E box), and screw it into the hole shown, which sit between the two oil holes on the rim of the clutch...

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr


As you can see I've made my own 'lifting device' from a slide hammer. Simples!

Then the unit gets lowered carefully into the bell housing, feeding that bolt thru the hole in the base which is paired with a non-hole (the only one like that)....

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr


chuck on a couple of the tapered bolts to hold the thing in place and then rotate the box so that the rest can fitted and then all be torqued-up (to 23Nm for these tapered bolts).

Next comes the planet gears and the double sun gear in the middle

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr

Then, in the reverse of removal, build up the rest of the planet gear carrier...

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr

and then the D and E clutch housing goes on top,, with the E Clutch downwards (which has 5 friction plates to the D clutch's 4).

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr

I then used an internal bearing puller and the slide hammer shaft again, to lower this all down on top of the sun gear which is sticking up at the bottom of the box.
This proved a little tricky as the lower part can slip down, out of the E clutch and so the D/E unit needs pressure downwards to stop this and keep everything together.
Plus you need to rotate the shaft to get the bottom sun gear engaged.
Not easy with only one pair of hands!

I needed to knock the D/E unit downwards with a handy length of wood, to get the snap ring in place above it, which holds all of this tight in the box.
In fact the manual says that the snap ring may need tapped into its groove with a hammer - it is tapered towards its outer edge, to allow this.


And that's what I've done so far. Shouldn't be more than a couple of hours left in this job, I'm hoping.

Still looking for a guinea pig to try this box in their car!
jockthedog

Well, I did get this box finished up a while ago and it's been languishing on my garage floor since then, but after a longish drive at the weekend I found the box in the car starting to slip in lower gears when it was hot.
Bahhhh

That suggests that the VB is knackered (it will expand when hot and make any worn valves even looser in their channels).
Lots of times I saw the revs zip up to 7k and the box change up with a good clunk.
I managed to do this in 3rd especially, using the paddles to select the gear and then seeing if it would slip.
So the A Clutch is not getting engaged.
No probs in reverse or 5th, so it's not the F clutch issue.

Given that sometimes it was ok, to me means that the clutch packs and pistons are still ok - they CAN do the job if they get the hydraulic pressure they need.

So, I'm having this box put in next week once I get the TC reco'd over at Mackie's, tomorrow.

I have a loooong trip planned later in May in the car which will be very hard on the box, so this will really prove whether I can rebuild these boxes or not.
lewiswlawrence

jockthedog wrote:
Well, I did get this box finished up a while ago and it's been languishing on my garage floor since then, but after a longish drive at the weekend I found the box in the car starting to slip in lower gears when it was hot.
Bahhhh

That suggests that the VB is knackered (it will expand when hot and make any worn valves even looser in their channels).
Lots of times I saw the revs zip up to 7k and the box change up with a good clunk.
I managed to do this in 3rd especially, using the paddles to select the gear and then seeing if it would slip.
So the A Clutch is not getting engaged.
No probs in reverse or 5th, so it's not the F clutch issue.

Given that sometimes it was ok, to me means that the clutch packs and pistons are still ok - they CAN do the job if they get the hydraulic pressure they need.

So, I'm having this box put in next week once I get the TC reco'd over at Mackie's, tomorrow.

I have a loooong trip planned later in May in the car which will be very hard on the box, so this will really prove whether I can rebuild these boxes or not.


Shame on the box failing, sure the replacement will perform fine. Fingers crossed for you just in case.  
Noggymike

jockthedog wrote:
Well, I did get this box finished up a while ago and it's been languishing on my garage floor since then, but after a longish drive at the weekend I found the box in the car starting to slip in lower gears when it was hot.
Bahhhh

That suggests that the VB is knackered (it will expand when hot and make any worn valves even looser in their channels).
Lots of times I saw the revs zip up to 7k and the box change up with a good clunk.
I managed to do this in 3rd especially, using the paddles to select the gear and then seeing if it would slip.
So the A Clutch is not getting engaged.
No probs in reverse or 5th, so it's not the F clutch issue.

Given that sometimes it was ok, to me means that the clutch packs and pistons are still ok - they CAN do the job if they get the hydraulic pressure they need.

So, I'm having this box put in next week once I get the TC reco'd over at Mackie's, tomorrow.

I have a loooong trip planned later in May in the car which will be very hard on the box, so this will really prove whether I can rebuild these boxes or not.



You are already there!, think of us poor Southerners!
jockthedog

I'll remind you of that if I end up bringing the track car.
Noggymike

jockthedog wrote:
I'll remind you of that if I end up bringing the track car.


 
AutomaticTransmission

[quote="jockthedog:692313"]Now onto the next bit - the gear tower.

To lift the oil pump out of the bell housing again 'requires' a special lifting tool.
Here's how to make one:

Take two tiny bolts, about M4 I think. Just too large to fit in the little holes on the outer shaft you see in the housing, and grind away te tips so that they do fit.

IMG_0298 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0299 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Then insert those into the two holes and arrange a puller to press down on the inner shaft and pull the outer shaft upwards. This releases the seal on the oil pump making it easy to pull out.

IMG_0300 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0302 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0303 by jockthedog, on Flickr


In fact when I pulled the pump out, because the wee bolts catch on the tip of the internal shaft, I also pulled the top set of clutchs and brakes, 'tower II', out of the box....

IMG_0304 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0305 by jockthedog, on Flickr



This is what you should see inside the box now...

IMG_0324 by jockthedog, on Flickr

There is a giant snap ring inside the casing, holding the next bit in.
Trying to lift this next part - the D/E Brake drum and (heavy!) planetary gearsets - out was going to be tricky and again a special tool is available.

I made my own by using a small bearing puller inside the shaft, which has a nice lip inside it.

The correct tool attaches thru all of the the planetary gear carriers below the D-E drum but I wasn't bothered about that - this will make it tricky to reinstall so i will likely make another tool to do that job, when I get to it.
This way I get the D-E drum and planetary gears I and II, in one go.

Here's my lifting tool:
Slide hammer shaft with an internal bearing puller attached. Works a treat!

IMG_0327 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0329 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0332 by jockthedog, on Flickr



Throw our twopennyworth in to say save yourself time on making removal tools.
The pump is only held by the dryness of the O ring. So use gravity to your advantage and lay the box on its back, use a screwdriver to ease the B clutch drum forward from the centre support & it`ll pop out.
Also don`t try pulling the geartrain and centre support upwards with that puller against the bushing - again with gearbox on its back grasp the shaft with your hand and use gravity instead of fighting it. The whole lot will pull out with a quick yank.
Any questions just ask
www.automaticgearboxrepairs.com
AutomaticTransmission

jockthedog wrote:
I've been busy over the xmas hols and again this weekend to start putting the box back together.



As you can see I've made my own 'lifting device' from a slide hammer. Simples!



Quote:
I then used an internal bearing puller and the slide hammer shaft again, to lower this all down on top of the sun gear which is sticking up at the bottom of the box.
This proved a little tricky as the lower part can slip down, out of the E clutch and so the D/E unit needs pressure downwards to stop this and keep everything together.
Plus you need to rotate the shaft to get the bottom sun gear engaged.
Not easy with only one pair of hands!

I needed to knock the D/E unit downwards with a handy length of wood, to get the snap ring in place above it, which holds all of this tight in the box.
In fact the manual says that the snap ring may need tapped into its groove with a hammer - it is tapered towards its outer edge, to allow this.


And that's what I've done so far. Shouldn't be more than a couple of hours left in this job, I'm hoping.

Still looking for a guinea pig to try this box in their car!


Before you lower assembly in use the sun shaft from the C clutch to centralise everything, carefully remove shaft and use a simple 2 piece bearing clamp th hold everything in place - then lower it all in by hand
jockthedog

All very welcome advice to a noob. Thanks!

I did figure out the oil pump just needed a good tug - the manual is a bit OTT with lifting gear etc!

Never dawned on me to use a clamp.
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