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 ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown - Pic heavy View next topic
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tanoga
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Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Posts: 1606

Location: Dunstable

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:28 pm  Reply with quoteBack to top

Noggymike wrote:
Great work so far Doug!



[url=https://flic.kr/p/ABuQiF]


That looks like an awesome tool I need one of those at work!

Was it expensive???


and just how do you propose to cut grass with that

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jockthedog
Experienced


Car: S4-B5.3
Power: C5-RS6Plus
Torque: in' hell!
Engine code: 0xFA

Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 3132

Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Noggymike wrote:
Great work so far Doug!



ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr


That looks like an awesome tool I need one of those at work!

Was it expensive???


19.99 from amazon

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tanoga
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Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Posts: 1606

Location: Dunstable

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I reckon ZF are gonna come along and steal this thread for their own repair manual Great write up Doug

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quattrodan
Learning


Car: RS4 (b5)

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 92

Location: South Yorkshire.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

jockthedog wrote:
No idea Mike, last time I saw it was a few weeks ago

I'll take a look next time I'm in the garage.

BTW I found no problems at all in the gear stack, so the problems which caused this box to be taken out of whatever car it was in, lie in the valve body.
I'll fit new seals and filter when I build it up again, and new friction rings, just in case.


When it was in my S6 it had no major problems, it was just a little jerky on shifts which I think was the valve body. It was removed as I have done a manual conversion on my S6.
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Noggymike
Veteran


Car: 2002 B5 RS4
Power: 430 bhp
Torque: Whatever
Engine code: BHP

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 12209

Location: In front of you, lol'ing

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

jockthedog wrote:
Noggymike wrote:
Great work so far Doug!



ZF5HP24a gearbox teardown by jockthedog, on Flickr


That looks like an awesome tool I need one of those at work!

Was it expensive???


19.99 from amazon




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Alex@Fontain
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Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Posts: 452

Location: Iver, Bucks

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

What a great thread; really interesting to see the innards of the beastie. I only get to see the sparkly oil that comes out of a dead one
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jimbo
GM Auto Services


Car: blue
Power: 597whp
Torque: 693lbft

Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 11460


PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

makes a b5 box look pretty simple eh doug  

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Noggymike
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

jimbo wrote:
makes a b5 box look pretty simple eh doug



Lol!

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dhali
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Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 783


PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You Sir are a genius  
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Nobby
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Car: C5 RS6 Avant

Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 37

Location: At a fancy Jamboree

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:51 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Epic stuff! Well done.

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jockthedog
Experienced


Car: S4-B5.3
Power: C5-RS6Plus
Torque: in' hell!
Engine code: 0xFA

Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 3132

Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

quick update - got the valve body back from Mackies, repaired.
Was too worn and so one part of it needed replaced.
So that was the original problem. I could have left the box alone and been fine, but this way was more fun
Also picked up a new filter and the rebuild kit with all the orings (dozens of those!).

So I'm 800 notes lighter but I have all the bits now to rebuild the box.
I'll post some pics soon.

Unfortunately Mackies are not set up to test the whole box - they don't see enough of these quattro boxes to make it worth their while to set up their machines to do it.
So I'll either need to use this one myself, if/when my own box goes pop, or sell it on with no guarantee it'll work

Anybody want to be a guinea pig?

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jockthedog
Experienced


Car: S4-B5.3
Power: C5-RS6Plus
Torque: in' hell!
Engine code: 0xFA

Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 3132

Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I've been busy over the xmas hols and again this weekend to start putting the box back together.

As I mentioned there are dozens of orings to replace, on all the pistons and such like, and I also did some measurements of the clutch packs, with a thought of reshimming them,

Again there is a 'special' tool for this, but it's not so special. Basically a flat plate with a notch that sits on top of the clutch packs, which are compressed by 200Nm force, and then the depth of the pack is measured thru the notch.

Fortunately I have 20kg of steel plates that I use on my press, and 20kg times gravity gives 200Nm - nice and simple.

I got a dod of aluminium 'ecoplate' which is very flat, cut a notch in it and did the measurements with my new vernier depth gauge..

Measuring clutch packs by jockthedog, on Flickr

Measuring clutch packs by jockthedog, on Flickr

The idea is that you measure the depth of the pack and also the depth of the place it installs into, up to the base of the snap ring which holds it all in.
There is a range of what 'extra' space there should be, for each clutch. eg 1.4-1.7mm
I found that several clutches were worn to some degree and so I got some thicker snap rings to bring the thing back into spec.

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr



Here I am starting to replace the o-rings, one at a time and working from a checklist inside the box that they came in....

Measuring clutch packs by jockthedog, on Flickr



Now for the rebuild - one very clean housing. The box is standing vertically on my B+D workbench.

And believe it or not, it smells of 'new car'!

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr


First thing is to mount the freewheel back into the F Clutch housing with a simple snap ring

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr

Now take one longish M8 bolt and cut the head off ( I used an old strech bolt which normally holds on the drive shafts on an 01E box), and screw it into the hole shown, which sit between the two oil holes on the rim of the clutch...

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr


As you can see I've made my own 'lifting device' from a slide hammer. Simples!

Then the unit gets lowered carefully into the bell housing, feeding that bolt thru the hole in the base which is paired with a non-hole (the only one like that)....

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr


chuck on a couple of the tapered bolts to hold the thing in place and then rotate the box so that the rest can fitted and then all be torqued-up (to 23Nm for these tapered bolts).

Next comes the planet gears and the double sun gear in the middle

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr

Then, in the reverse of removal, build up the rest of the planet gear carrier...

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr

and then the D and E clutch housing goes on top,, with the E Clutch downwards (which has 5 friction plates to the D clutch's 4).

Zf5 rebuild by jockthedog, on Flickr

I then used an internal bearing puller and the slide hammer shaft again, to lower this all down on top of the sun gear which is sticking up at the bottom of the box.
This proved a little tricky as the lower part can slip down, out of the E clutch and so the D/E unit needs pressure downwards to stop this and keep everything together.
Plus you need to rotate the shaft to get the bottom sun gear engaged.
Not easy with only one pair of hands!

I needed to knock the D/E unit downwards with a handy length of wood, to get the snap ring in place above it, which holds all of this tight in the box.
In fact the manual says that the snap ring may need tapped into its groove with a hammer - it is tapered towards its outer edge, to allow this.


And that's what I've done so far. Shouldn't be more than a couple of hours left in this job, I'm hoping.

Still looking for a guinea pig to try this box in their car!

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jockthedog
Experienced


Car: S4-B5.3
Power: C5-RS6Plus
Torque: in' hell!
Engine code: 0xFA

Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 3132

Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:40 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, I did get this box finished up a while ago and it's been languishing on my garage floor since then, but after a longish drive at the weekend I found the box in the car starting to slip in lower gears when it was hot.
Bahhhh

That suggests that the VB is knackered (it will expand when hot and make any worn valves even looser in their channels).
Lots of times I saw the revs zip up to 7k and the box change up with a good clunk.
I managed to do this in 3rd especially, using the paddles to select the gear and then seeing if it would slip.
So the A Clutch is not getting engaged.
No probs in reverse or 5th, so it's not the F clutch issue.

Given that sometimes it was ok, to me means that the clutch packs and pistons are still ok - they CAN do the job if they get the hydraulic pressure they need.

So, I'm having this box put in next week once I get the TC reco'd over at Mackie's, tomorrow.

I have a loooong trip planned later in May in the car which will be very hard on the box, so this will really prove whether I can rebuild these boxes or not.

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lewiswlawrence
Skilled


Car: S4 B5 2000 facelift
Power: >500
Torque: >500

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 1109

Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

jockthedog wrote:
Well, I did get this box finished up a while ago and it's been languishing on my garage floor since then, but after a longish drive at the weekend I found the box in the car starting to slip in lower gears when it was hot.
Bahhhh

That suggests that the VB is knackered (it will expand when hot and make any worn valves even looser in their channels).
Lots of times I saw the revs zip up to 7k and the box change up with a good clunk.
I managed to do this in 3rd especially, using the paddles to select the gear and then seeing if it would slip.
So the A Clutch is not getting engaged.
No probs in reverse or 5th, so it's not the F clutch issue.

Given that sometimes it was ok, to me means that the clutch packs and pistons are still ok - they CAN do the job if they get the hydraulic pressure they need.

So, I'm having this box put in next week once I get the TC reco'd over at Mackie's, tomorrow.

I have a loooong trip planned later in May in the car which will be very hard on the box, so this will really prove whether I can rebuild these boxes or not.


Shame on the box failing, sure the replacement will perform fine. Fingers crossed for you just in case.  

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Noggymike
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Car: 2002 B5 RS4
Power: 430 bhp
Torque: Whatever
Engine code: BHP

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 12209

Location: In front of you, lol'ing

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

jockthedog wrote:
Well, I did get this box finished up a while ago and it's been languishing on my garage floor since then, but after a longish drive at the weekend I found the box in the car starting to slip in lower gears when it was hot.
Bahhhh

That suggests that the VB is knackered (it will expand when hot and make any worn valves even looser in their channels).
Lots of times I saw the revs zip up to 7k and the box change up with a good clunk.
I managed to do this in 3rd especially, using the paddles to select the gear and then seeing if it would slip.
So the A Clutch is not getting engaged.
No probs in reverse or 5th, so it's not the F clutch issue.

Given that sometimes it was ok, to me means that the clutch packs and pistons are still ok - they CAN do the job if they get the hydraulic pressure they need.

So, I'm having this box put in next week once I get the TC reco'd over at Mackie's, tomorrow.

I have a loooong trip planned later in May in the car which will be very hard on the box, so this will really prove whether I can rebuild these boxes or not.



You are already there!, think of us poor Southerners!

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