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 Rare UR Quattro, bringing it back to life...... View next topic
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tanoga
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Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Posts: 1533

Location: Dunstable

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:33 pm  Reply with quoteBack to top

Noggymike wrote:

only minor damage to one mounting point due to alloy/steel contact issues, but hopefully a longer M6 x 0.8 pitch bolt can tap further down into the moulding.


M6 x 1.0 pitch is "standard" so you might want to double check M6 x 0.8 pitch is what you "actually" have

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Noggymike
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Car: 2002 B5 RS4
Power: 430 bhp
Torque: Whatever
Engine code: BHP

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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Location: In front of you, lol'ing

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

tanoga wrote:
Noggymike wrote:

only minor damage to one mounting point due to alloy/steel contact issues, but hopefully a longer M6 x 0.8 pitch bolt can tap further down into the moulding.


M6 x 1.0 pitch is "standard" so you might want to double check M6 x 0.8 pitch is what you "actually" have



Sorry Karl

But you are wrong





But































so right!








       

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tanoga
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Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Posts: 1533

Location: Dunstable

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Fuckng inspectors.............they're only a second opinion and don't count anyway

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Noggymike
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Car: 2002 B5 RS4
Power: 430 bhp
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Engine code: BHP

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quattro and rear diff now on their way to Jockthedog towers for refurbishment.



Over to you Doug!      

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Noggymike
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Car: 2002 B5 RS4
Power: 430 bhp
Torque: Whatever
Engine code: BHP

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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Location: In front of you, lol'ing

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Got a few free hours this weekend so had game plan of

Remove bonnet release cable and ancillary bits and bobs.

Remove final clips, grommets and other crap from the bay.

Remove front bumper with ancillary bits and bobs.

Strip down front doors


No pic for final clips, grommets etc as v boring, although I finalyl found the part No for Norm to source the bulk head double grommet for the heater exchange pipes


Bonnet cable release mechanism had me scratching my head for a bit as I thought the vertical part of the tension spring was held in by a full circle clamp, thankfully not






All out plus other bits and bobs







As my update is obviously being affected by Xmas shopping on the net and it has taken me 40 mins so far for the above I really can't be arsed tonight to carry on  

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Norrs2
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Car: B5 RS4, Ur quattro

Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 2260

Location: Perthshire

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Is that the missing bonnet cable in there?

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Noggymike
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Car: 2002 B5 RS4
Power: 430 bhp
Torque: Whatever
Engine code: BHP

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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Location: In front of you, lol'ing

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Norrs2 wrote:
Is that the missing bonnet cable in there?




 

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Shamx1166
knowledgeable


Car: Audi S4 noggy pfl
Power: Plenty
Torque: Enough

Joined: 27 Mar 2015
Posts: 329

Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Awesome thread and a fantastic find a real Quattro Dream car

Keep up the great posts

Look forward to seeing this complete

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Noggymike
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Car: 2002 B5 RS4
Power: 430 bhp
Torque: Whatever
Engine code: BHP

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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Location: In front of you, lol'ing

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Shamx1166 wrote:
Awesome thread and a fantastic find a real Quattro Dream car

Keep up the great posts

Look forward to seeing this complete




Cheers

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2002 B5 RS4 Noggy
2008 BMW 118d Daily slaaaag
2000 TT 225 Roadster (on going project)
1982 UR Quattro gem in the making
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Noggymike
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Car: 2002 B5 RS4
Power: 430 bhp
Torque: Whatever
Engine code: BHP

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 12132

Location: In front of you, lol'ing

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

So the remainder of the bay furniture in terms of bungs, grommets, clips and cable supports were removed along with the bonnet furniture.








Then remove and breakdown the front bumper








Then onto stripping the doors down further...












A few broken bits before all this lot came off








Had a weird one, the two wing mirrors have different wiring looms.





The one on the right from the passenger side is the correct one which matches the inner loom connections.

Perhaps the drivers side got damaged and someone just found a similar looking one not knowing it didn't match up on the electrical side. Who knows, but another job on the list!


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2002 B5 RS4 Noggy
2008 BMW 118d Daily slaaaag
2000 TT 225 Roadster (on going project)
1982 UR Quattro gem in the making
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guymcc
Expert


Car: Misano RS4 B5
Power: 504ps
Torque: 604nm

Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 4543

Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Another good update Mike!!

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Noggymike
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Car: 2002 B5 RS4
Power: 430 bhp
Torque: Whatever
Engine code: BHP

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 12132

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Getting there slowly Guy.

No really much left on the car to take off etc now, rear bumper, petrol cap, vents etc.

The remaining glass will be taken out professionally to make sure old fat fingers here doesn't ruin them  

Then onto removing parts which require refurbishment off the engine and going through the bags of parts Steve removed to assess them as well.

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1982 UR Quattro gem in the making
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jockthedog
Experienced


Car: S4-B5.3
Power: C5-RS6Plus
Torque: in' hell!
Engine code: 0xFA

Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 3013

Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Here comes the first instalment of the Ur gearbox rebuild subthread
First time I've looked inside one of these, but there shouldn't be any surprises.
It's basically an early version of the box I'm used to.

Photo heavy, of course

So we begin with Mike and his rather iffy packing skills....

IMG_0842 by jockthedog, on Flickr

which I had to mention was a bit flaky looking and likely to fall apart on the first speedbump.

I just had to mention it didn’t I?….

So Mike builds what became known as the NRH or Nuclear Rabbit Hutch. Being completely bomb-proof, and, well, like a rabbit hutch...

IMG_0839 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0840 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0841 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Only thing is, this NRH weighs more than the contents.

So the whole package was simply impossible to get into the back of my scooby, not only due to the weight but but
Mike's clever selection of the Height of the NRH to be exactly equivalent to the Height of my scooby wagon boot opening.

Bah

Little did I suspect, when I left the house that morning with my impact driver and square bit in my bag, that I would
encounter the only man in Chrisendom who would use not simply cross-head screws, but TORX socket head bolt head
wood screws in camo-green, by the flipping dozen!

I got sore arms unbolting the daft things enough to get the box out, still attached to one end of the NRH (I think it
was the Blast Doors) and Got it into the car with good old (emphasis on OLD) skinny-b*stard-power then poured l
ovely black diff oil down my front, moving THAT to the car.
A great day.


Got it into the workshop and took lots of pics of the outside, including the serial id number which says its a 7Z box,
from 15/10/85…. so it’s a second hand box.
The gearbox code for this age is 016 (vs 01A and 01E - the B5 box).

IMG_0830 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0834 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The diff has a part no on the housing but the code is missing from where I should be able to find it…

IMG_0832 by jockthedog, on Flickr


Interesting little plate here on the box, with a bump in it. Cable guie of some sort I guess as there's a loop on the end.

IMG_0811 by jockthedog, on Flickr

You’ll see lots of horrible allen bolts but I put 3 or 4 doses of penetrator on all the bolts before I went near them with a tool.


IMG_0817 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Pretty oily all over and I’ll be replacing all the seals I can get to.

Most of the oil was seeping from the vents tho, so not too bad.

I was sure I’d asked Mike to empty the oil from both the rear diff and the box but I just got a few litres from them.
The rear diff oil was BLACK. Will need some TLC I think.
IMG_0863 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The gearbox oil was pretty clean tho, and that does bode well.
No sign of swarf in the oil.

Here you can see the spindle which controls the rear diff lock….


IMG_0835 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The centre diff lock works by pushing a rod into the box, with the same effect that the front and back, this time, are locked together.
Heres the pushrod with the loop on the end.
A cable comes from the dashboard control to the bent wee peg you see and the sleeve of the control wire clamps to the
metal loop, which is then pushed in and out by the control.

IMG_0828 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0807 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0826 by jockthedog, on Flickr

bit sorry looking and the part (a stud welded to a bolt) is NLA. So if we need a new one, we’ll need to make it ourselves.

There’s no lock on the front diff.

Here’s the selector rod, which pushes in, pulls out and turns, to select the H pattern gears as usual.
All gears are easily selected right now, and all turn happily. A great sign.

IMG_0822 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Heres the speedo output which I think is a simple rotating spindle which drives a wire, to the olde worlde magnetic speedo.
That right Mike?

Oil has been slowly dripping form this orifice, suggesting that there is some MORE oil left in the box.
I did say to empty it didn’t I Mike?

IMG_0821 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Finally the selector cover, on the other end of the selector rod.

IMG_0820 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Note the single detente bolt on the right, where the 01E box has two here.

So, two empty shelves ready for all the parts I’ll hopefully be pulling out of the box.

IMG_0838 by jockthedog, on Flickr





Competition time!


Where’s Waldo?


IMG_0806 by jockthedog, on Flickr





Onto the teardown.

I removed the rear ‘balance’ weight which is a big lump of iron, covered in rubber and a metal plate, losely attached
to that, seemingly. The two should be bonded together in the same way that the one on the 01E box, although that is
bonded to the entire rear bearing housing.

The rubber is peeling and could probably best be trimmed back, the rust treated and then plasticoated.
I’ve already been over the plate with a write brush, in case you are wondering. I tend to clean everything as it comes off.
IMG_0843 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0844 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0846 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0847 by jockthedog, on Flickr


The weight can only be removed by removing the three allen bolts hiding down the big holes. And that releases the
rear bearing housing from the box. There are some diaphragm spring washers which press down on the centre
diff - a lockable, but otherwise open diff. Those force the housing out of the box when the bolts come out.

IMG_0856 by jockthedog, on Flickr

I noticed as I was cleaning it that there was a tiny chunk missing from the edge of the cover. A stone must have got
in there, or perhaps when the box was swapped the last time, this got gouged. Looks pretty old.

IMG_0857 by jockthedog, on Flickr

It’s not a functional issue and is normally hidden under the big counterweight, which is why I didn't spot it on my initial tour.


There’s an oring to replace here, and it was quickly apparent that the rear bearing was completely shot. Sounds
like a box of sand. That is easily replaced as I found the bearing (discontinued as THIS part) as part of
a VW wheel bearing kit. It’s quite a common bearing - “6206”, 30mm ID, 62mm OD and 16mm thickness.

Couple of proper circlips (for a change!) and a quick job in the press and Bob’s your Diff-lock, it’s in bits. I’ll replace the rear oil-seal.

IMG_0858 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The gear thing you see is the hub which locks the centre diff, with a sliding collar which connects or disconnects it
from the barrel of the centre diff.

IMG_0859 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The gear is splined to the rear driveshaft which is also splined at the end where it sits in the diff itself.

IMG_0862 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Here’s the view into the rear of the box. You can see the collar and the centre diff with similar teeth on it.

IMG_0865 by jockthedog, on Flickr


Only a very special German sadist would put a bolt directly under an overhang….

IMG_0868 by jockthedog, on Flickr

or even two!

IMG_0866 by jockthedog, on Flickr

Fortunately the bolts were freed with a simple allen key, so they are not that tight. Hand tight, basically.

One bolt was missing a washer - possible that this box has been taken apart before…??

IMG_0870 by jockthedog, on Flickr

There was a magnetic plug at the base of the centre diff housing and it was many, as expected, but cleaned up no probs.
IMG_0871 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0872 by jockthedog, on Flickr
IMG_0873 by jockthedog, on Flickr

The centre diff has another drain plug and a plug with this weird spike on it. This is what feeds oil into the end of the
input shaft, to lube the needle bearings along it, under the gears. The 01E box has a more complex ‘oil-catcher-
with an integrated magnet, but I knew what I was looking at right away.

IMG_0875 by jockthedog, on Flickr

And was also happy to see the same M12 3-square socket-headed bolt which holds the end of the input shaft in the centre diff housing.

IMG_0877 by jockthedog, on Flickr

To release that I will need to lock the input shaft, which in the 01E box at least, means putting it into 2 gears at once.
There is a single ‘detente’ bolt for the selector rod, which is in 3 parts (01E integrates these). I expected to see an
oring on this bolt but there was none.

And then you need to remove the selector rod itself and that pops out the cover on the side of the box, easy peasy.

IMG_0880 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0879 by jockthedog, on Flickr


Now I came across a problem - the usual trick of selecting two gears is not going to work. The selector mechanism
seems to preclude that, as when I select one gear, I can no longer move the other selectors. There will be a trick to
this, and if anyone knows how to lock the input shaft, I’m all ears.



I stopped at that point, and just removed the clutch release bearing and the plastic sleeve it slides on.

IMG_0881 by jockthedog, on Flickr

IMG_0882 by jockthedog, on Flickr

If I can’t figure out the releasing of the input shaft, to get the back end off the box, I’ll just pop the front diff out and
give those bearing a good looking at.
I will be able to see the state of the pinion too and I might even separate the bell housing which will give me access to
the other end of the gearset - gears R and 1-4, at least to examine the synchros.



That’s all for this week.
Xmas piss-up with work tomorrow and then I’m off till January

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jockthedog
Experienced


Car: S4-B5.3
Power: C5-RS6Plus
Torque: in' hell!
Engine code: 0xFA

Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 3013

Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Aha...
http://www.t85q.com

Some very useful gearbox info there. Seems that the input shaft simply goes into the vice, once I get the bell housing off.
Or I can stick a clutch on it and fix that with a long spindle. Either way, I won't be doing it this way....

Shut your eyes, car-lovers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_593_0LYhU


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jockthedog
Experienced


Car: S4-B5.3
Power: C5-RS6Plus
Torque: in' hell!
Engine code: 0xFA

Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 3013

Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh yeah, my VAG385 tools are also applicable to this box, so I can do a full reshim if needed (if bearings have to get replaced). Yay!

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