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 Don't ignore s6's that have strange noises!! View next topic
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C J
Experienced


Car: RS4 B5
Power: 507
Torque: 741
Engine code: AZR

Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 3589

Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:24 pm  Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't normally post work/jobs on here as a rule, but thought I would this in case it can help anyone out in the future.

C6 s6 came to me with a rattle that was quite loud from 2000 rpm plus. Owner booked it for suspected 'tappets'.
I got stuck into this and quickly found the noise was coming from the inlet manifold! Now I know these have a dual variable intake system so knew straight away that it had broken up. I just didn't realise how bad!!

I got to work and stripped the inlet and to my horror I found a piece of the inlet plastic runner wedged on top of the valve!! Now this fault wasn't recent, he said it had been rattling for a while and had been driving it, albeit with reduced performance. The piece had been bouncing round in there long enough to clean some of the carbon off the valve!








So if you hear a rattling in your 5.2 v10 don't leave it!  

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mikey-s
Veteran



Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 7401

Location: Mars

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Wow,  could have very easily gone kaboom!   Good find.

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dannyRS6
Brand New, Welcome :)


Car: C6 S6
Power: 439 BHP

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Posts: 20


PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Good find!!.. these are a common problem with BXA V10 engines, the Upper inlet manifold flaps (tumbler flaps) are plastic and become brittle and break off. You can choose have these removed and mapped out. Its also a problem with B7 RS4's I believe.

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travs
Knows a Bit


Car: C6 S6

Joined: 13 May 2010
Posts: 140

Location: SW London

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:55 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Ouch!
Definitely a good spot!

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Lee
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prj
Learning


Car: RS4
Engine code: AZR

Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 50


PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

dannyRS6 wrote:
You can choose have these removed and mapped out.

And lose a good deal of low-end torque in the process. Don't confuse variable intake geometry on gasoline engines with swirl flaps on diesels (which are only used to make EGR more efficient there).
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dannyRS6
Brand New, Welcome :)


Car: C6 S6
Power: 439 BHP

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Posts: 20


PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

prj wrote:
dannyRS6 wrote:
You can choose have these removed and mapped out.

And lose a good deal of low-end torque in the process. Don't confuse variable intake geometry on gasoline engines with swirl flaps on diesels (which are only used to make EGR more efficient there).


I'm sorry but I don't think I am, I understand why the 'tumbler' flaps are there and what they are for but I've had it done on my BXA V10 and the loss is minimal.. once I get home I will post the Dyno sheet to prove it, 439BHP with roughly the same torque and very little loss at the low end.. plus the added bonus of no plastic bits rattling around the valves.

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C J
Experienced


Car: RS4 B5
Power: 507
Torque: 741
Engine code: AZR

Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 3589

Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is going a bit off topic!

But I have to agree. With these flaps deleted you lose loads of low end, low rev part throttle torque. It's actually well documented and known.

I'm sure your power graph does show good power and torque. But your forgetting a power graph is done on full throttle when the torque flaps are in 'power and flow' position.

If you plotted the torque on part throttle and low load when the torque flaps are in the torque position it would be a different story.

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prj
Learning


Car: RS4
Engine code: AZR

Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 50


PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ What he said.

Why buy a V10 engined car if there is no money for maintenance?
Once these go, it is a relatively straightforward job of replacing the part of the intake manifold where the bits drop out from, and it's good for another minimum 5 years.

The difference in city-driving is quite pronounced, as I've tried this personally before - first removed the flaps, and deleted the diagnostics in the ECU, then fitted new ones. Ever since I've refused to code out the flaps on any petrol engined cars when asked - it's about the same type of "fix" like making damaged body panels out of filler on cars...
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dannyRS6
Brand New, Welcome :)


Car: C6 S6
Power: 439 BHP

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Posts: 20


PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

C J wrote:
This is going a bit off topic!

But I have to agree. With these flaps deleted you lose loads of low end, low rev part throttle torque. It's actually well documented and known.

I'm sure your power graph does show good power and torque. But your forgetting a power graph is done on full throttle when the torque flaps are in 'power and flow' position.

If you plotted the torque on part throttle and low load when the torque flaps are in the torque position it would be a different story.


Good point, I genuinely didn't think of it that way when I got it dyno'd afterwards. Too busy making sure it was running well and back up to full power. Haha
Cheers

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dannyRS6
Brand New, Welcome :)


Car: C6 S6
Power: 439 BHP

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Posts: 20


PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

prj wrote:
^^^ What he said.

Why buy a V10 engined car if there is no money for maintenance?
Once these go, it is a relatively straightforward job of replacing the part of the intake manifold where the bits drop out from, and it's good for another minimum 5 years.

The difference in city-driving is quite pronounced, as I've tried this personally before - first removed the flaps, and deleted the diagnostics in the ECU, then fitted new ones. Ever since I've refused to code out the flaps on any petrol engined cars when asked - it's about the same type of "fix" like making damaged body panels out of filler on cars...


Easy buddy.. my car is maintained regardless of cost, don't think because I deleted the upper manifold flaps it's not.
Thanks for the advice though.

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travs
Knows a Bit


Car: C6 S6

Joined: 13 May 2010
Posts: 140

Location: SW London

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Innocent presumptions aside - its a good and useful thread - cheers all!  

Is this something that should be done pro-actively? Despite wearing its age extremely well, mine is 11-years old and will only be likely to have been done if presented as a problem before. So I wouldn't mind a bit of peace of mind if wiser than waiting for a rattle?

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Lee
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bboy82
Experienced


Car: K04'd B5 S4 Saloon
Power: TBC
Engine code: AGB

Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 3293

Location: East Northants

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Could these plastic parts be replaced with upgraded parts at all?

By that I mean manufactured/machined from a more resilient material than the plastic that Audi chose?

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dannyRS6
Brand New, Welcome :)


Car: C6 S6
Power: 439 BHP

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Posts: 20


PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Unfortunately, I believe the only way to check this is to remove the intake manifold completely but I may be wrong. It's usually done during a carbon clean (which is when I done mine) and you can give it a thorough inspection then. If parts of the variable length intake manifold flaps / runners have broken off or look like they are about too its a whole new intake manifold from Audi as they only sell them as a complete unit as far as I am aware, unless another company makes a seperate aftermarket part for this.
Some of the more experienced members on here will be able to give you a more definitive answer, I'm just speaking from personal experience.
Again.. the only reason I removed mine was a preventative measure as they as well documented for coming apart, eliminating any risk of bits dropping somewhere they shouldn't. As CJ said, it will drop your low-end torque at low RPM's but its something I personally can live with.

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IanH755
knowledgeable


Car: C6 RS6 Avant
Power: 907hp
Torque: 830ft/lbs

Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 359

Location: Nr Maidstone, Kent

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Just to add add my own experience on the flap/de-flap on the V10 (although mine has turbos), mine felt noticeably "different" at 1000rpm to 1800rpm where it feels like I now need slightly more throttle (say 10-15% as a guess) to get the same acceleration feel as before during normal driving i.e. when pulling away normally from standstill, going up hill etc so while it hasn't effected any peak power/torque figures it has made a no=ticable difference to the "normal" driving rev-range.

Past 2k rpm it's no different in feel than with the flaps fitted.

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